I like the Profane Relic

@Foreshadow

hey, your Master character thought makes sense. Let's hope they will add more of these master characters in future, because sometimes you just wish to have picked a different character. Maybe to become a chaos warrior you need to kill a character and pray 5 times at the cementary or deliver 5 trophies to the cementary. To become a good character you need to deliver 8 gold tokens to the castle and spend 3 turns praying at the temple. To become this dude sitting in his chair (neutral character) you have to message on your phone, be bored and not present during the whole game.

Sacred is simply setting apart something as special, while the term profane refers to that which is not. Yet, these terms are utilized by those in religion and they might not consider another religion's sacred to be their sacred.

for example, many places on the Earth are considered sacred but that doesn't mean the Catholic Church considers them sacred but then most of those other religions might not see a pile of 'saintly' bones to be sacred either.

Sacred just means significant to the believer in otherwords,

This is a board game though and clearly has chosen Western religious themes (i.e. European based) so we have a heaven and hellish theme apparently from the Art.

Yet, the cool thing is Christian mythology upon which this is based is a direct descendant of Greek mythology (and other elements). For example look at a game like Dante's Inferno and the original Poem. Then go back and look at Hades and the story of Persephone. That girl Dante in the game wants is Persophone. It is a twist in the story to make her 'his' love instead of the daughter of Demeter.

The key is all the essential elements are there, the details can change so in this way Christianity is in some ways a continuation of approach and images from earlier pagan times. Though, if you look, the conception of God clearly changes from how Zeus is conceived and thus why in a game like God of War III Zeus is simply a big human like guy who has faults and is not the ultimate creator. The idea of the Godhead changed to make it more in line with the ultimate creator that existed in earlier times but in other more abstract terms. It was like someone said 'slap the look of Zeus onto that creator idea we heard about and we'll call it God'.

So back to Talisman, like God of War, Dante, etc. this seems to simply be a use of religion themes which come from our real religions but terms like Sacred and Neutral don't need to mean what we think they might. Neutral simply means 'not evil or good' and really comes from D&D alignment system more than anything. Yet, neutral traditionally (and by that I mean from the strong heritage of D&D, to be 'nature based' as nature was not perceived as good or evil rather it simply was the 'forces that bind and make up our existence' to put it in a nutshell.

So a Druid is seen as 'the priest' of such a nature-centered religion and taken as neutral. Yet, in real history it was the Romans and later Christianized Romans who were the agressors and invaders, not the Druid and Celts, thus if I were the score-keeper of history I would have called the Roman's (and by default Christains) as 'evil' as invading another land and subjugating its people would fall under the list of 'things that are evil to do'.

Of course, things were not that simple but my point is, each side would have seen themselves and their own cause as 'good' and 'right' and each would have had a sense of the sacred.

As far as what I'd hope a master character like that undead looking knight might be: I'd call him a Dread Knight as he is sort of like an undeadish, underworld and possibly working for the 'evil' side but notice in the art that means demonic and underworld simply means 'place of the dead' much like the Greek land of Hades which doesn't need to be demonic and yet both would have that sense of dread thus why I'd use that term: Dread Knight so it could go either way. We could go with Dread Champion to make it more generic as if its a master level character and your playing, say, the Gypsy and you get this upgrade in character your not really a knight, more like a champion of the dark forces.

The 'good' knight probably would be something like the Questing Knight but I like Champion of Light better so you take upon yourself the mantle of Champion for the forces of Light, as ultimately the motif of Light and Dark more than anything else lay at the foundation of the good/evil idea. Champion of Light/Dark or Champion of LIght, Dread Champion seem like good choices. I know it could be Champion of Darkness but I like variety.

An any alignment 'priest' type character, perhaps an Inquistor, sure and since that means you could be from either side of the coin you could be an inquistor from either angle of the spectrum.

I hope the 'good' character of that Fae Queen is much like the Ice Queen, Reaper and similar characters. Perhaps you can go to the Land of Farie. But I don't see her as a playable character, more like a 'boss' type to face or help you. If I made the game I'd allow an Evil character to face her in combat (and she'd be like 12/12 probably) but a good character could roll on a D6 chart to 'gain her favor' and thus get something instead of combat as she might help you. If she were a neutral character then if your neutral you can roll that and perhaps good characters can choose either to fight or roll at a penalty.

Where are some of you getting your definitions? It's rather disturbing how misinformed some of them are.

I think Master characters (sometimes called 2nd Level) will probably be held off until (if) when the City comes out. But as much as my group hated them for being to easy to acquire, I hope they get some very deep fixes.

So far, I think Bantha is the closest to the mark on the whole "profane" (OED abridged, Online Etymology Dictionary) and "sacred" issue (OED, OEtyD). Of course this doesn't mean the term for that artwork / card will be on the mark in what will be found in that card. A lot of the card titles are pretty much ambiance and little more. Most definitely I bet on it being Evil ... or at least dangerous to use (I would hope).

Whether or not it will be an actual "Relic" (as in for the Highlands) is another question. I suppose it could even be another Treasure card as well, though that deck is already more developed than the Relics. Likely it will be a Adventure "Magic Object", as the relics so far have individual titles. Here's hoping for more peeks and teases about what's coming in Sacred Pool.

Well J.C. I got it out of you in the end...

Great post. Very good points that I completely understand but unable to articulate properly.

Hence why you are an author and I hack around in bits and bytes.

Who would have thought that a discussion about piece of board game artwork could enter the realms of theology, whether Talismanland is a polytheistic or monotheistic realm, and the nature of good and evil.

History is not fact. It is distorted by the recorder or in the case of the inaminate, inferred with a guess.

Woah! Far too deep for Talisman. Better get back to work of swearing at M$ Windows.

I apologise for my terrible grammar.

BanthaFodder said:

Be wary of mentioning the Evil that is M$... At FFG, the Mac is king...

BanthaFodder said:

hee hee! Yes, musn't think too much where Talisman is concerned, right?

I feel for you on M$. I just switched to a Mac six months ago, though not because I consider it superior. It is not. Mac or PC, they both have strengths and weaknesses... and sometimes either can be in the way people think about them. As someone who spent almost ten years in IT, I scoff at the PR slung about on both sides. I run both Snow Leopard and XP-SP3+... because comparatively a lot of the Mac side versions of power programs I use really suck or are too limited compared to the PC side. Although in memory-use, Mac has the edge. But I can still grind either OS to halt in the way I use my machine.

But enough of that deviation... As to alignment, still hoping for some form of upgrade or new dimension to it with S.P.

Ahem... when are we going to get another news item?

OFF TOPIC NOTICE!

<<<<<<

I am not using Windoze by choice. Project at work. Having to mess around in such a useless, bloated, impotent OS is driving me nuts.

Pays the bills I guess. Have done 16 years hard labour although that covers lots of different OS. Windoze if by far the worst.

It has not improved on it's ancestor OS/2 (which was far more stable)

I use a Mac at home. They just work, I don't want to have to do support at home. iMac G5 been going for 7 years without a glitch.

Moving to a unix based OS was the clincher for me. Apple essentially dropping support for PPC is making me look at a replacement

and can't decide between a new iMac or a mini. I don't actually use the Mac much anymore, all casual use is on the iPad.

However, am thinking of moving into dev for iPhone/iPad as a hobby and need to decide wether the mini will have enough grunt. I do video editing as well

but that has lain dormant for a long while. Kids do that to you.

Day to day at work I have moved to Ubuntu (where I am now) and generally try to run M$ Windows in a VM. Having said that, one partition

won't play nicely so I have to reboot there now.

<Deep breath> <more coffee>

>>>>

BACK ON TOPIC

Yeah, so when is there more news coming out ?? Jon must have something up his sleeve...

Yeah, I feel your pain again, though I am a PC advocate. However, it is becoming a multiplatform world. More and more people (well, at least the savy and skilled) will be running multiple operating systems to get the best of all worlds. There are still quite a number of apps for the PC world that leave the Mac versions in the dust. Growth of multi-platform will start to influence that and force developers to compete (at least in highend apps) for new markets of users. It is badly needed for the boxed in mentality of Mac developers. Some Mac apps or classes of such just suck and are about a decade behind the PC side. Fingers-crossed... and I'm going to look into adding Linux to my repetoire in the next year so I can fiddle around with some of its apps.

Back to something else...

Have we reached any consensus on the best guess for those hinted characters on the cover of S.P.? I think some are possibly obvious, but not all. I'm putting my money on the Inquisitor (by any other name) for the seated one. Death/Chaos Knight/Warrior seems like our mounted figure.

<< OFF TOPIC AGAIN >>

What apps lag behind on the Mac? As I said, I use it less and less but may start developing some iPhone/iPad apps but that requires

and Intel processor.

I used to use Final Cut which I really liked. I do have photoshop but just the Elements version as am not a power user and that is totally

sufficient for my (and the better half)

For games I have a PS3 or Wii or iPad

Casual browsing, email and twitter is done on the iPad (although this site is not iPad friendly if you want to post.)

Personally I think the iPad model or something like that will be the direction home computing will go.

I even think that the browser will become redundant, replaced by discreet apps that perform a particular task.

The internet needs it. It is just far too messy out there. John and Jane Doe really don't understand computers and are incapable of looking

after them properly. There has been no option before but that is changing.

PCs and browsers (to access the raw web) as we know them will just survive as the playthings of geeks (like me)

For a Linux disto I would recommend Ubuntu. By far the friendliest I have come across.

<< BACK IN THE GAME >>

My 4 penneth:

Death Knight

Paladin

Ranger/Mercenary (not too sure about her)

Inquisitor

Apps: all blogwares on Mac are 5-10 years behind compared to the PC side. Video transformation (not editing) softwares are over automated and lack refined control (often in the same app/version for Mac vs PC). Certain Adobe apps have small features that operate differently, or are missing certain parts on the Mac side. I always go over to the PC side if I have to edit or secure a PDF, and there are issues in Photoshop and Illustrator. The most amusing part is when you mention the difference to some Mac users and you get the "deer in headlights" look. And they ask "why would you want that"? Don't even try to answer, as they just go goggle eyed again.

Office suites are often different from PC to Mac, and for my own purposes, editing, review and markup (needed for manuscripts and publications) on the Mac side is cumbersome because you can't turn off as many autofunctions as you can on the PC side. There are lots of other issues as well... many in the area of flexibility and defined features for customization falling short on the Mad side... sometimes WAY SHORT!

I'm not a fan of the iPad... yet. It is far too constrictive, and that Apple refused to put in direct browsing of the drive is never going to fly with real power users who want to escape Apple's "Have it our way" mentality. My old partner in my previous IT consultancy has one and lives nearby, he loves it... but he also curses it a lot.

Okay, enough complaining...

Sounds like the list of characters is pretty well, nailed down then. I can't think of any reasonable alternatives to what you've listed. Guess we just sit wait now... sigh.

Still waiting for sneak peeks, or hints or trailers or blurbs, or blog write-ups, or cryptic posts of teaser info.

Yes that means we would love some tid-bits.

An angelic trio of images for you today at Talisman Island.

I will also be posting something else over the weekend for you to mull over...

Enjoy!!

Ah yes, another little fix to keep us going.

Very nice pics! Cant wait till it comes out.

I love Felicia's work. Great choice.

I like the angel artworks

From the look of the picture. maybe that those cards has something to do with alignment and death..

As promised, I have posted another image from the upcoming Sacred Pool expansion over at Talisman Island.

Have fun!!!

SWEET!

I have just sneaked a couple more images onto Talisman Island for those that might be interested!

For anyone who hasn't gone there yet.............go..................NOW.

Wicked awesome thanks a bazillion.

I gotta go line up now.

WHy no official preview yet?

Very nice artwork. I'm looking forward to the time it is released.

Looks like I was wrong about the Inquisitor.

A strangely numb Magus is the seated character, who is Evil. Go figure.