I'm sure that you guys could discuss this in a thread so that questions aren't lost in the midst of off-topic conversation

As for the last question: Renown is gained depending on how dangerous/important the mission was, how well they completed it, how many of the objectives they succeeded in completing, various heroic acts, all that sort of thing. It would probably take you about 3-5 missions to move up to the first Renown rank, and start using new/better weapons and ammo.

Kage2020 said:

Aren't their GURPS supplement geared towards different styles of action, especially to the more cineastic or even super-heroic action? In creating a rpg system or campaign, one basic consideration has to be of how much realism do I want? Or how cineastic do I want things to get?

Given all the minis and all the illustrations, I prefer a mix of gritty realism and cineastic high drama action and in the case of helmets I'll probably pursue such a house rule for that exact reason. Plus the more distinction I can get, the better.

Alex

MILLANDSON said:

You're right. I wouldn't want the shameless acts of PR to be lost under generic gaming talk.

Admittedly, in this case you're really right but, well, with four threads all dealing with the same stuff who in the hell knows what one thread is to be about. Again, sorry, though.

So, remind me again how great the game is?

Kage

Dark Heresy Psyker with Divine Shot and a Lascannon is a helmetless marines worst nightmare, which amuses me

Artaxerxes said:

I think if that is one of the few things that will trouble a helmetless marine, they wont be too worried about de-helmeting

on-topic, each chapter has its own advancement tree, is there enough variation in this that several marines of the same chapter could all be fairly distinct, or would picking a chapter pretty much define your archetype? i got the impression from FS that if you were a blood angel you were combat monster + speciality. BA assault marines basically doubling up on combat monsterishness, but could you have a whole party of blood angels (for example) and still have enough variety?

i feel like ive answered my own question somewhat with the specialities, but what other sort of stuff could you do to make one BA assault marine a different animal from another BA assault marine?

one more thing occurs to me - would i be right in supposing that the specialities relate to terminator equivalents when in TD armour, ie. tactical = terminator, devastator = assault cannon/heavy flamer, assault marine = lightning claws etc?

last of all, any special stuff for BA apothecaries? (sanguinary priests)

skatingtortoise said:

Well, there are plenty of different skill choices you can go through, and then there is the actual personality, etc, of the characters. Different weapon preferences, different preferred tactics, all of those can make two characters from the same Chapter and same Speciality two completely different characters.

You would also be incorrect in assuming that Specialities relate to what weapons they use. They get different starting equipment, but there's nothing stopping them throwing that aside and using completely different weapons if they wanted to. So no, Speciality has nothing to do with what weapons you'd wield when in Terminator Armour.

And no, there's no special stuff about Sanguinary Priests, because all of the Chapters send those who can deal with those of other Chapters, and generally hide the more secret parts of their Chapter's rites. As such, I doubt the Blood Angels (or one of their Successor Chapters) would send a grail of Sanguinius' blood with him, in case another member of the Deathwatch manages to learn about the secret flaw in the Blood Angels' geneseed. That's why they only send Marines that have proven to be stable and a lot less prone to Frenzy, just as the Space Wolves only send those least likely of falling to the Curse of the Wolfen.

Artaxerxes said:

Considering a Lascannon has PEN 10, it really wouldn't matter whether the SM had his helmet on or not.

MILLANDSON said:

You're not getting around that many minis and characters in many illustrations wear no helmet and this creates from a gamer's perspective a desire to see some reflection of that in the rules. Anyway, the debate is pointless at this point, let's wait and see until everyone has had the product in their hands for themselves.

As you can see... certain house rules are already forming in my head.

Alex

PS I doubt that this forum is one of the last places where the book needs to be defended or advertized at this point. I believe that most people who are reading this here right now will buy the game or have it pre-ordered already.

ak-73 said:

I plead guilty, your honor. After all, aren't we all already sold on DW ?

This said, MILLANDSON is right to point out our discussion on 'helmet or no helmet' borders on thread hijacking... and it seems the FFG forums don't allow for an easy extraction and pasting it in its own thread (well, that's what you get for trusting the French on webdesign matters but I digress ).

Off topic.

Dont see it as a thread hijack. The thread isnt labeled as "Deathwatch Q&A but only about the current book and only about subjects I want to talk about" it is simple Deathwatch Q&A. And the Q was "What about wearing no helmet, what are the bennies?" and the answer is "Well you get no AP."

And as we can see it lead to more Qs. I like the A that says you get extra renown for going at it with no helm on. Many of the marines in Horus Heresy just toss thier helmet aside "to look their foe in the eye as they die!"

I also like the idea of extra bonus to command or giving out some inspirational Bonus. When SGT Baldy charges the Hive Tyrant helmetless, the local PDF horde gets a +10 to its next fear test!

Course, when that SGT gets to T50 and has a cranial implant, he has a soak of 11 then in all, so he is pretty badass as it is.

+++++++++++++++++++

On topic.

What is the XP equivalent of a starting marine in RT? In DH?

Is the Psy system like RT or DH?

What critters/races are in the book?

What is the starting characteristic roll like (30+2D10)?

Any worlds of origin? Background packages?

While not a RT or DH supplement, what in there easily lends itself to RT or DH?

How many Deathwatch Marines does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

What is the XP equivalent of a starting marine in RT? In DH?

Already covered that, but it's Rank 4 RT, Rank 9 DH

Is the Psy system like RT or DH?

Rogue Trader.

What critters/races are in the book?

Chaos (daemon prince, Chaos Marines, etc), Tau (Crisis battlesuits, Stealth Suits, Firewarriors, Gun Drones), Tyranids (Hive Tyrant, Warrior, Hormagaunts, Termagaunts), and a raft of NPCs.

What is the starting characteristic roll like (30+2D10)?

30+2d10.

Any worlds of origin? Background packages?

Nope, just Chapter and Speciality. As with RT/DH, background packages and the like will come later.

While not a RT or DH supplement, what in there easily lends itself to RT or DH?

The NPCs and Xenos, the Xenos weapons, stuff like that. The Squad Abilities are also pretty cool and would work in a militarised game (such as a squad of Guardsmen, etc).

How many Deathwatch Marines does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

None, as that menial job is left for the tech-servitors of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions, Millandson.

MILLANDSON said:

This snippet intrigues me. I'm torn between asking for specifics of this and waiting to read it myself in the book! So I'll content myself with asking how much detail there is about the structure of the Jericho Reach Crusade. Is there a nominated Warmaster? Does the background section go into much detail about the command structure of the Crusade? Are the Deathwatch a formal part of the Crusade Hierarchy? Is there a nominated Inquisitor Lord who accompanies the Crusade? Is there Inquisitorial intrigue in the region, and as such is there room to run a DH campaign in the setting to accompany the DW campaigns?

Lightbringer said:

For in depth info on most of that, I think you'll need to look to the last book in the Litany of War lineup.

Lightbringer said:

It's one that I'm going to wait until I can read it myself since it would otherwise imply that absolutely no one, including the Fleet, can tell that the stars aren't the same ("But, but... My lucky constellation has just gone!"). The explanation for that one is going to be interesting and will give me a reason to read the setting.

Kage

Skills question - On the Character sheet some of the skills are marked that "trained" is known, but not "basic". (example- Common Lore-Adeptus Astartes and Drive-Ground Vehicles). Does the player still need to purchase the "basic"? or is it given he knows it already since he is "trained"?

I'd like t to say I think it's pretty awesome you're doing this for a bunch of greedy, pushy nerds and personally greatly appreciate it.

A simple question, I think. Probably already asked many times, but I haven't checked the entire thread. How well does the book present Deathwatch as more than just a "shoot the bad guys, save the day" RPG? Suppose somebody knows enough about 40k to come to the assumption a Space Marine RPG will just be about killing things, how well does the book present, at a glance, that this is not the case?

Kahaal said:

That's probably something that can be answered by knowing the DH/RT rules. "Basic" just identifies the skill as being natural enough, that one can do it without "training," things like dodging, climbing, awareness, etc. (but suffer a 1/2 penalty on the attribute you roll on). If it is not basic, you just can't use it. No matter what, if you are trained in it, you get your normal full skill + whatever bonus. I don't think there is any normal way to "buy" a skill as basic, usually when spending XP, you are actually training the skill (which is better anyway). There are however, some methods of treating advanced skills as basic skills (at least in DH/RT), through certain background packages, etc.

Kage2020 said:

I would imagine that constellations vary greatly over interstellar distances. Earth's constellations aren't fixed over time.

There's more to it than that, but that would get into discussion and, well, as has been pointed out somewhat strongly herein that's not the purpose of the thread. I was merely commenting upon the oddity of the situation and will be intrigued as to how this is resolved (if it is resolved) in the final product, preferring to read it for myself rather than see it explained away here.

Kage

KommissarK said:

Ok, thank you. Did not play the DH/RT so was kind of guessing that was the way

Kage2020 said:

The comment was that most of the forces in the Crusade don't know where they actually are... given the size of the average crusade force, 'most' can still leave a fairly significant proportion who are the exception. Broadly speaking, the only people who actually need to know where they are, and be in a position to determine it for themselves, would be the crusade's command personnel, the senior officers of the starships, the Navigators and the Astropaths. The majority of starship crew won't need to see the outside for the purposes of their job, and the millions or billions of guardsmen will likely only see one alien sky after another...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Basically, this.

Lightbringer, if you want to know more about that, well, read on...

Basically, a Warp Gate was discovered in the Maw, the warp-storms between the Calixis Sector and the Koronus Expanse. After drones and scout ships were sent through, it was discovered that the warp gate went to a similar gate in the Jericho Reach, previously unknown of when it was the Jericho Sector. No one knows who built them, or why, or where they come from, but obviously such a resource needed to be captured by the Imperium, which prompted the Achillus Crusade into the Jericho Reach.

However, due to the nature of the warp gate, they have to keep most of the forces in the Crusade ignorant of the truth, because the Warp Gate is the only speedy method of getting supplies to the Crusade forces, and should enemies discover this, the Crusade would be finished if the Warp Gate fell out of their hands. The secrecy is so that captured soldiers can't tell their enemies about this fact.

It's also because the secrecy allows them to exploit the military tithes of the Calixis/Scarus/Ixaniad Sectors. The planetary governors, many of the officers, and others not important enough to know the truth believe that the troops and materials they are sending are being used in the Margin Crusade that is taking place in the Halo Stars. However, the Margin Crusade collapsed/disappeared over two decades ago, and is being kept alive on paper merely to justify the increased military tithes for the huge losses the Achillus Crusade. If the local governments knew that they were being squeezed for troops and equipment for a war on the opposite side of the galaxy, there would be serious repercussions for the politics of the Sectors involved.

So... yea, it's basically best to keep a lot of people in the dark about the nature of the Crusade. Senior Commanders, naval officers, the senior Crusade staff, the Adeptus Astartes and Adepta Sororitas, and all the Navigators and Astropaths of the Crusade know the truth. The lower officers and the Guardsmen under their command? They all think they're in the Halo Stars.

MILLANDSON said:

The reason that I didn't want to know was that I thought that this might be the response. Ah well.

Kage

MILLANDSON said:

That simply doesn't work imo. It seems to me like a clever idea that hasn't been properly thought through.

The constellations being different doesn't really matter in itself, because soldiers wouldn't know the different between constellations in the Eastern Rim and constellations in the Margin.

There are however at least three much more obvious reasons why that secret wouldn't work and couldn't be kept.

1) One of the three salients is being fought against the Tau. That's the Tau specifically limited galactically to the Eastern Fringe. All the Crusade Army would have to know the Tau are one of the three enemy forces - now they could assume 'heck the Tau somehow are able to get from the Eastern Fringe to the Calixian Halo Stars! Whoa! That's amazing.' However added to the 2nd and 3rd reasons (and the few knowledgeable people who can stargaze) it doesn't really make sense they wouldn't also wonder, or actually realise, that they themselves are in fact on the Eastern Fringe.

2) There's a stonking great, named, Chaos Storm-thing, at the centre of the Crusade region and on the map - that's the regional map which only shows the really well known planets and stuff of the area. That particular Chaos storm is as we know on other galactic maps ... located in the Eastern Fringe of the galaxy near Tau space. Hmmm.

3) The Margin Crusade is previously stated to be being fought beyond Kalf, beyond the margin of the Imperium (which Calixis is right on the outer edge of), and beyond even the light of the Emperor (that's stated in IH). So soldiers sent to the Margin Crusade rightly would expect to be fighting on worlds that have never known any significant Imperial presence and which certainly have never been a major part of the Imperium, or a wealthy Imperial Sector ... like say the worlds of the ... Jericho Sector. The Jericho Reach worlds must be covered in Imperial ruins ... all of them. Now even if there are only ruins left, and not stores of data-arks, cogitators, statues, books, records, etc etc (which isn't imo credible), it would not take anyone with half a brain long to start seeing references to world names, that can be looked up at the first opportunity.

ALL armies thrive on gossip and rumour. This secret would not hold. Imagine Gaunt's Ghosts going into this one, Gaunt would have it solved inside one book. Heck it wouldn't take a genius.

Also it wouldn't take the enemy forces many prisoners to twig they all seem to be from Calixis, Ixaniad, and Scarus, on the other side of the Galaxy and all believe they are fighting in the Margin, not the Eastern Fringe. Also I'm not really convinced Lord Sector Hax (or the Scarus and Ixaniad) leaders really get much of a say where their soldiers serve in the Galaxy anyway.

It simply does not work.

I sure hope as well this doesn't mean we won't ever learn who the Margin Crusade was actually being fought against. Or at least if that is going to be the case, that we can be told we won't ever be told, so I can make it up myself without fear of official contradiction.

As a personal taste issue, I also don't like this idea because it means the Margin Crusade is also being fought against Tyranids in 815 (assuming that is the case?), and I firmly believe and prefer the much more internally sensible and consistent canon that states the Tyranids were believed extinct after Macragge and before the arrival of Kraken in 992.

Adam France said:

Ah, the perils of timelines.

Alex