I never believed the 'add 1 foot for power armour thing anyway. Like the armours going to be 6 inches think on the toopsof their heads and feet where it doesn't need motivator fibres.

Face Eater said:

though speaking as asoldier i wouldn't mind the extra thickness on feet and legs help against mines

Steeljaw said:

I read that, then I promptly chose to ignore it out of shear stupidity. I am wholly unimpressed with a space marine, in power armor who is the size of a NFL offensive lineman in pads, only heavier.

If that box had read something along the lines of "A munchkin of a Space Marine stands 2.1 meters tall (under 6 '9", way under 7') and typically weighs 500 kg out of armor" I could have gone with it.

As far as armor, I would estimate the armor adds between 6-8 inches in height. 2.5-3.5 inches would be the tread, plating, musculature, and padding on the boots while the rest would come from the padding and plating and general shape of the helmet. Some helmets have more height to them than others.

MILLANDSON said:

2 more questions. sorry I keep bothering you guys about this but till my bok arrive you are stuck with me

1) Which are the beneficts of the new crafting quality in game term and how much requisitions does it cost to upgrade a weapon.

2) Signature Wargear. A friend tried to explain it to me over irc but I don't get something. At rank 1 you get 20 and you buy your think. Fair and square, I get it.At rank 2 you get 40 to spend on the same item ? rank 3 is 70 ? Can't you use them to get other items or just keep improving ? I mean there's a limit on how many things you can put on a weapon no ?

I'm gonna play an assault marine and as can you wonder I'd really like to have a good melee and possible a decent arteficer (sure later in the game, I know it takes reknown as well).

Lucius Valerius said:

1) Factor 1.5 for one level increase, Factor 2 for two. Ranged weapons do +1 damage per level, melee weapons get +5 WS per level.

2) You get to spend them on the same item or you replace the original item when choosing a higher form of SW. You get to spend the full available points on the new item. From the description of SW it seems as if some careers allow one to pick the 20 point version multiple times (for multiple items) but I didn't check that.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Ok now it makes sense, thank you

Yet another question. I was talking with a friend of mine who has already the book and were discussing the use of astartes size wargear by normal human (mostlu laughting at some crazy ideas) and about requisition of human items by astartes. Since weapons rise one size going from astartes to human (pistol are basic and so forth) it's also true the opposite. Something that it's 2handed for a human is 1 handed for an astartes right ? But then whould a 2handed unwieldy weapon lose said trait entirely, keep it or unwieldy became unbalanced ?

Also, how whould best quality item compare to mastercrafted in term of reknown required ? technically they are the same but the redundancy of adding them anew with just new names kind of make it a gray area..

i doubt space marine fingers would fit in most human size weapons, i think the official ruling is a -10 to use. not that a marine would ever need to, he does more damage with his little finger than a lasgun.

as for craftsmanship, i believe best is equivalent to DW common. as astartes are only ever given the best.

skatingtortoise said:

You might have noticed I was mostly refering to unwieldy trait which means melee. Is a human sized 2handed weapon a one handed for a marine ? does it lose the unwieldy alltogheter ? is it substituted by unbalanced maybe ?

Well, if you go with the line that Astartes are 2.1m tall in armor then logically anyone in power armor should be able to use Astartes grade weapons without penalty.

Out of armor, or sans glove, there should logically be no reason why an Astartes would take any penalty to use "Human" wargear.

This also changes the "Astartes weapons are too powerful for humans" into "Astartes weapons are too powerful for humans not in power armor."

Also Ogryn and any other gene-stock bulky, large humanoids should have no trouble with Astartes equipment at all.

ItsUncertainWho said:

It's not just size, it's proportions (Space Marines are very broad across the shoulders, and their armoured hands are quite bulky - the life-size sketch of a marine that exists at GW's head office demonstrates that it's not their height that makes them imposing... it's the combination of height and width) weight (a marine's strength is inhuman to say the least) and a few elements of manufacturing (such as electronic/"smart" systems, which could be collectively dubbed "Machine Spirits" from a 40k perspective). An average starting Deathwatch marine in full armour has a Strength Bonus of 10; that's significantly more than a normal person in power armour.

We know from a few bits and pieces in the Imperial Armour books that Astartes bolters (and presumably many other weapons) have systems that connect to the wielder's power armour, granting him information about the weapon, allowing him to target through the auto-sense link built into the weapon, and allowing the weapon to lock itself in the hands of someone other than its intended user. Based on that, a good part of the difficulty of non-Astartes using Astartes weaponry may well be the weapon's internal systems failing to function properly away from their intended user.

Beyond that, saying that "Astartes are 2.1m tall" is akin to saying that the average height of a human male is 1.77m... it fails to account for the natural variances between individuals.

Lucius Valerius said:

It's difficult to say. I would rule that since the weapon still is not designed for marine use, its a -10, and should probably maintain its traits as is.

You had also asked about craftsmanship. The thing is, if a marine wanted to requisition some item (of better quality), it would be of the masterwork, rather than best quality (also, masterwork is basically best + 2 damage, and exceptional is good + 1 damage). It sounds to me like you're having issues having DW and DH/RT mesh on the equipment/economy level, which is probably one of the big differences between the systems (but there is a table giving a req range for various availibilites)

The problem is, if you have so item from DH/RT, its difficult to say what the ex act req cost should be (if any).

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Except that your looking at roughly a million or two Astartes who's average height is 2.1m in armor vs billions of men who's average height is 1.77m. Statistically the height variance with Astartes is going to be far, far less than with a normal man. So when you get to the Imperium numbers wise there are a whole hell of a lot of men that are "Astartes" size, or a lot bigger.

Just as an aside, it didn't say "average", but rather, "slightly above" 2.1 meters

KommissarK said:

So is "slightly above" the mean, median or the mode?

So instead of almost 6' 9" they are 6' 9"

What they imply by putting a hard number like that in the book is that those numbers would be the average.