Well, I've not personally done Horde on Horde fights, so I wouldn't know. I'd be tempted to run any such battles narratively anyway.

Normally, so would I, but sometimes it might get interesting to know exactly how much remains of a friendly force, especially if they're specialist the marines might need later.

Nope, no increase to the Unnatural Characteristics they already have either.

So what is there to make Marines stand out as being awesome?

AluminiumWolf said:

So what is there to make Marines stand out as being awesome?

Thanks for answering those, too bad about the helmets, I'll definitely be house ruling that to be a bonus on social/command tests, and maybe see if it can mesh with the squad talents or whatever they're called.

Well, round two:

Unarmed combat; is a marine's damage classed as primitive/do they have (early) access to the unarmed master talents? In other words, how effective would it be to just grab some xenos influenced recidivist by the neck, snap it, and toss him aside? Have the rules for the stun action changed at all (since I imagine power armour + unnatural strength makes stun rather fun to do against weaker enemies)?

Any noticeable modifications to the core DH/RT rules (like how semi auto allowed a move in RT)?

Whats is the xp needed to achieve the highest rank (in other words how does it scale with the upper level of ascension)?

Psychic Phenomena - Is it still roughly the same table or do librarians get it different. Are there psychic hoods?

Teleportation - we had the teleportarium in RT, but it was kind of simple rule wise, is teleportation used as a means of insertion/does it have potential negative effects, or is it purely narrative if used?

Is there still a good listing of weapon modifications/ammo types? How about other types of gear/cybernetics?

Stupid question, but elite advances/alternate career ranks/background packages are still mentioned (not necessarily included), right?

And thanks for doing this for those of us not fortunate enough to be able to go to gen-con/active in the testing to get books early.

MILLANDSON said:

Yeah and how *cool* is that? Do the Space Marine captain all wear a helmet in combat?

Another possible incentive would of course be significant renown boni. It's not about realism; the entire 40K setting isn't. A little bit more cineasm here please.

A question I'd like to ask: could explain a bit more what the book highlights about the background of space marines and the different characters? What does the book say about their daily life/down-time? Isn't their life lonely? How do Marines cope with that? Any additional personal demeanours not mentioned in FInan Sanction? How many are their in total roundabout? Does a Marines past/up-bringing/home-world play any role in the characters?

Alex

PS Horde vs Horde: they get to hit each other fairly well, given the size modifiers to hit?

how flexible is the rules surounding your characters origin chapter? Is there a full system to use for crafting your own chapter? Or just a list of a few, offical chapters nailed down?

Thanks for the replies MILLANDSON, some useful information to keep the appetite whetted.

It definitely feels that a lot of stuff I assumed would be in the main book won't be, which isn't entirely a bad thing (there will be loads of other stuff in there, stuff that would have to be displaced to make room for what I thought would be in it!) as it provides a lot of potential for expansion.

I'm curious now about how high a rank can be achieved using the basic book and whether a further Ascension style book will be released in the future that allows characters to ascend to the upper ranks of the Deathwatch. It also seems to be the case that the Deathwatch has been present in the Jericho Reach throughout its isolation from the Imperium. If I read that correctly then surely that would mean that the Deathwatch (or at least a portion of it) was also cut off from the Imperium. Does that mean that there are re-integration issues? What deviations from procedure have crept in during the period of isolation?

Overall I've really enjoyed FInal Sanction and Oblivion's Edge, meaning that I can't wait for the book to be released. I haven't been this excited about a rpg release in quite some time.

MILLANDSON, if you have the time any chance of filling us in on one or two of the special marine organs? My personal request would be for whether or not there are rules for absorbing memories from the eating of brains! That could be slightly controversial!

@AluminiumWolf: So their strength and toughness is all that make Space Marines awesome?

@KommissarK:

I believe all Marines start with the Unarmed Master talent, which makes their unarmed attacks not count as unarmed when against armed people, means their unarmed attacks do 1d10+SB in Impact Damage, and don't count as Primitive.

I've not spotted any major changes in the rules since Rogue Trader, though obviously that doesn't mean there might not be some that I've not spotted.

50,000 xp is required to max the rankings, though Space Marines start off with the equivalent of 13,000xp anyway.

Psychic Phenomena is similar to Rogue Trader's rules, and I haven't spotted any rules for Psychic Hoods yet.

Teleportation is entirely narrative, since there are no rules for ships or the like in Deathwatch.

There are still lots of different ammo choices and upgrades, and a load of different cybernetics and the like too.

I've not spotted anything mentioning elite advances or the like yet, sorry.

@ak-73: There is "cool", and there is what is sensible in combat. The only reason people don't wear helmets in the miniatures, and in movies, is so you know who the main character is. If you want to run around and get shot in the head because you didn't wear a helmet, go ahead, but if you were in my game, I know who the snipers would be smiling at as they spotted the squad moving through the streets below.

As for the Space Marine life stuff, a fair bit of that is covered, though as with everyone, what they feel, etc, is down to the individual, what Chapter they're in, etc.

@remmus: Erm... the Designer Diaries covered that in a lot more depth I could, and have covered it months ago. But yea, there are 6 Chapters covered in the book - Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Black Templars and Storm Wardens (the new FFG made chapter, who after reading the stuff in the book on them might well be in the running for my favourite of the lot, and I'm a big Blood Angel fan). Rules for making Chapters will be out later at some point.

@Shaun: You're lucky the forum tells me you've posted when I go to hit the post button, otherwise I'd have likely missed your questions

No, the Deathwatch weren't isolated. The Imperium decided to retreat from the Jericho Sector, the Deathwatch did not. They've been sending in reinforcements, replacements, weapons, ammo, etc, for the entire time. They do similar things in the Halo Stars, and in other areas not controlled by the Imperium, so the Deathwatch hanging around after the Imperium fled isn't out of the ordinary at all.

As for the Organs, all of the ones covered in the background are there, most of which have their own rules, including the Omophagea, which allows you to attempt to gain knowledge from eating a part of an enemy. What info you get though is entirely down to the GM. In doing this, though, you can also gain a skill, chosen by the GM, that the enemy had, as an untrained Basic Skill for a number of hours equal to your Intelligence Bonus.

Oh dear. Zombie "I know Kung fu."

Kage

MILLANDSON said:

I aim less for realism and more for heroic, cineastic action. Especially when we're talking about a Space Marine (not to mention Deathwatch) RPG:

Alex

MILLANDSON said:

ah well a bit hard for me to notice, I found out about this game like days ago, personally I´m supriced the Imperial Fist didn´t make a apreance, oh well at least I can roll up a Blood Angel character until those chapter making rules are out.

How good is eating your enemies brains to pick up skills! I love it.

Thanks again for the answers MILLANDSON, I shall now await the book with baited breath!

No worries Might as well use the luck I got at getting my copy early in helping out everyone else!

MILLANDSON said:

Awesome, thanks for the answers.

So, round three:

-So, just exactly what is there to spend 37000 XP on? I mean, even if all the talents cost like 500-600 xp (alot more than I remember them being in DH), thats still a good bit to actually spend on stuff. Besides weapon trainings, and some of the more traditional uses of XP (ability score enhancements, sound constitutions, various bonuses to attack and damage, etc.), just what exactly is there to spend xp on? (Do we have things like paragon talents and influence talents from Ascension?)

-So, while I would imagine the game tends towards combat, what is the most social oriented class? I would imagine either tactical marine or apothecaray (as I doubt a techmarine or librarian to be talkative). How about knowledge oriented classes? Are there any new classifications of lores (xenos by type?)?

-This is more of a judgment call for house rules than an actual rules question. I think I heard it stated that characters spend xp across mutliple tables (generic marine, chapter, specialty). That makes it sound as if those tables are slightly smaller. Would this system make it easier to generate a custom specialty, such as chaplain or veteran scout (I know that topic has been covered elsewhere in terms of how appropriate it is, just roll with it), as all you would have to determine are special abilities by class, and assign a few talents/skills per rank? And while I know custom chapters are in the works, would it really strike you as difficult to generate an all new chapter?

-Deathwatch training, are there more options than automatically confirming righteous fury against foul xenos?

-Starting XP, I'm fairly sure I heard its slightly different here, but could it be described again (what amount, what it can be spent on, general starting choices between different skills/talents)?

And once again thanks for doing this.

ak-73 said:

I always assumed the laws of physics in the 40K universe made helmets irrelevant for major characters. I mean, everybody knows your armour somehow protects you from a headshot even if you're not wearing your helmet.

A bit like the lupus in House M.D. : whatever the problem is, it is never a lupus (even if the possibility of a lupus is always mentioned).

thought id throw in the stuff my group was curious about:

what are the specifics of shooting at hordes and size bonuses? are they flat modifiers, or adding the magnitude or something? in FS faq it stated it was a generalisation so im curious as to what it was generalising

what sort of stuff is in the deathwatch progression? to me it implies that you can play straight marines which simply lack this advancement tree, but id like to know for sure

lastly, is there anything in the book regarding mission creation ideas, or sections on encouraging non-combat roleplaying?

I was always under the impression that Space Marine heroes like Horus or the Emperor didn't wear helmets because they had Iron Halo force field generators and such to prevent headshots.

I recall back in the day, Force Commanders could be outfit with the Rosarius-like Iron Halo, which would generate a force field that converts incoming matter into light energy.

But to be honest, I think going into battle with environmentally sealed powered armor is completely negated by eschewing the critical head covering. The only reason the 40k figurines used them was to differentiate the sergeants and add variety, I would say.

@borithan: Yep, though I thought that the Designer Diaries had already basically stated as such.

@KommissarK:

There are quite a few skills, talents, etc, available to buy. And nope, the talents are like they are in DH/RT, not like the Ascension ones.

I'd actually say that Tactical Marines and Librarians are quite social, and Librarians are also fairly well trained in lores. However, most Space Marines can pick up all sorts of lore skills, especially about xenos, the Inquisition, the Warp, etc.

Nope, the Deathwatch Training is a talent, which is what you start with. You can gain other talents sort of like that with time, but that represents the hypo-indoctrinated information that has been put into your brain during your Deathwatch recruitment.

You start with 1000xp, and you can chose from anything from the General Space Marine rank 1 advancements, Speciality rank 1 advancements, and your Chapter advancements.

@skatingtortoise:

The magnitude of the Horde does increase or decrease the size bonus for hitting them. There is a table that shows what modifiers apply to what size Horde.

The Deathwatch advancements include a lot of different lores, talents and skills that you can't gain from other advancement trees.

And yep, there is stuff on suggestions to GMs on how to develop missions, how to structure them, all that sort of thing.

@J-Tech: I entirely agree with you. Having a suit of armour that is capable of entirely protecting your body from damage and chemicals, radiation, hostile environments, etc, and then completely negating it by not wearing a helmet is just a little silly, and you are correct in that the models have people without helmets to make it look more interesting on the tabletop, otherwise I'm sure that if models not wearing helmets gave them a lower armour value, no one would have models with no helmet on.

hi thank you for doing this as many have already said i may have to replace my key board due to drool dammage

my main question is how does the renown system affect you and how hard is it to gain renown?

J-Tech said:

But you see, personally I feel the same goes for RPG Characters: visual distinction/variety. And adding individual character - an expression of wildness, risk-taking or to lead troops in a more personal matter. Yep, beyond additional renown and a fate point compensation it might give a bonus to command troops too (house rule).

Alex

I know not what the rules state for the Space Wolves, but I do know that they frequently eschew their helmets because their natural senses are actually superior to that which is provided by wearing the helmet. In essence their helmet hinders their detection capabilities, mostly their sense of smell.

@ak

But you see, personally I feel the same goes for RPG Characters: visual distinction/variety. And adding individual character - an expression of wildness, risk-taking or to lead troops in a more personal matter.

Um... funny you should say that, but wouldn't that "risk-taking" attitude be completely invalidated if not wearing a helmet just gave you a different set of bonuses?

@SpawnofChaos

I know not what the rules state for the Space Wolves, but I do know that they frequently eschew their helmets because their natural senses are actually superior to that which is provided by wearing the helmet. In essence their helmet hinders their detection capabilities, mostly their sense of smell.

In Final Sanction, the Space Wolf's special ability (yup, better senses) was not useable while wearing a helmet. So... yeah.

Cifer said:

Sure but since the PA offers Auto-Senses it ain't really worth the risk.

Which ties in to what you said to me: it's a matter of properly adjusting the benefits of not taking a helmet so that a risk remains but a certain number of players will be willing to take it. Not so high though that everyone will be running around without it.

Alex

An alternate approach is that it's a crazy idea in the first place and you just don't bother with it. If a player becomes enamoured of the idea there is no real need to "balance it out." If they get shot in the head by something that can get through their power armour-thick invulnerable head, then they should suffer the consequences. As it stands, a Marine without a helmet is already pretty much buffed against most of the lower power weapons...

Just as Belfast once (maybe still) purportedly had the best knee reconstruction hospitals in the UK, I imagine that the Space Wolves are very used to dealing with cranial trauma...

Kage