Will it be available on .pdf? Soon (especially with copies being sold at Gen Con)? I would certainly buy both a .pdf and my already-paid for bound copy.

darknite said:

I just want the PDF, so... Well, still valid information for me as well.

Kage

I've heard nothing about it, and it took a couple of months after general release for Rogue Trader to come out on PDF, so I'd expect the same here, so my guess would be... around November/December.

MILLANDSON said:

really...months, I hope to god that´s just because a lot of red tape.

It can´t seriously take months to convert a rulebook to PDF form

remmus said:

It doesn't (quite the opposite, actually - it can take months to go from electronic format to printed book). But that doesn't mean it's anything to do with red tape either. It may simply be FFG's policy to only release the PDF after the hard copy has been available for a few months.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

and that has...what sence?

heck having a coe release of a PDF would save them cash since they had to pay for less prints being made.

Releasing a PDF right away makes it easier to get out and about on the internet, I'd say. It's actually rather smart. Pirates are a lazy, impatient bunch and would rather go out and buy a copy at the store than wait a few months/weeks/days for a PDF to be scanned, resized, converted, RAR'ed up, uploaded, circulated, etc.

Artemesia said:

trust me that´s just broad asumtion, in just a week, maybe 2 after the book is out someone have gone threw the effort of scaning it, and once one has done it it´s already out there, so to be frank Piracy is no exuse either.

plus frankly a PDF version would (I hope) be cheap enought most people would fork out the small price to get a crisp, legal PDF the the pirated scans.

I just find it customer unfreindly to instead of giving us the option between the expensive, luxury print and a cheaper, yet enjoyable PDF and just bluntly go "you want our rule book now? Sorry bob it´s our way or the highway, buy the expensive book"

Distribution methods are also down to GW giving approval, and also down to the pdf RPG site in question (like DriveThruRPG or RPGNow) putting the PDF through their quality guidelines, etc. Combine the two, and it's fairly easy to have a 2-3 month gap, unless you sent the PDF to the site at about the same time you sent the books to the printers.

But yea, lots of companies only put out PDFs a few months after the book has been in stores, to persuade people to buy that instead. It actually makes a lot of business sense to do it that way, especially when, as others have said, piracy of RPGs is rife, and so releasing the PDF a few months later often does slow down the speed of pirate PDFs hitting the internet.

One finds it difficult to believe that they will reverse their standard policy, though, especially given that the book will show up on P2P sites within about a week or so of the physical release, let alone the PDF release. Increasingly, it seems, that "locks are for honest people."

I for one don't want a crappy physical copy.

Kage

Checking out a number of pirate sites, I can already see that it took a month or two for the Rogue Trader PDF to be put up there (it took that long for someone to scan it and put it up, and about a month for each supplement book. So saying "pirate copies will be up in a week" is a bit... inaccurate, especially when you take into account that most people who bother going to Gencon are huge fans of the franchise, and unlikely to potentially damage their early copies by trying to scan it for pirates.

I'm still pretty sure the legal PDF will be up at the same time, if not earlier, than a pirate copy turns up.

Either way, I'm sure no one here has illegal copies of FFG games, and disapproves of piracy, so does it really matter if pirated copies are up earlier, if you are all going to end up waiting for the legal copies? I mean, suggesting that you are going to get a pirate copy of the game rather than wait for a legit copy probably isn't a smart thing to do on the company website, after all

Checking out a number of pirate sites, I can already see that it took a month or two for the Rogue Trader PDF to be put up there (it took that long for someone to scan it and put it up, and about a month for each supplement book. So saying "pirate copies will be up in a week" is a bit... inaccurate, especially when you take into account that most people who bother going to Gencon are huge fans of the franchise, and unlikely to potentially damage their early copies by trying to scan it for pirates.

I'm still pretty sure the legal PDF will be up at the same time, if not earlier, than a pirate copy turns up.

Either way, I'm sure no one here has illegal copies of FFG games, and disapproves of piracy, so does it really matter if pirated copies are up earlier, if you are all going to end up waiting for the legal copies? I mean, suggesting that you are going to get a pirate copy of the game rather than wait for a legit copy probably isn't a smart thing to do on the company website, after all

that´s this case, that still gives no thumb of rule how Deathwatch will turn out. plus you obvius have only covered a small part, earlier files could have been out but simply removed thanks to FFG.

MILLANDSON said:

that still doesn´t make sense, by the time the legal PDF is out people can bloody trip over the illegal free PDF scans. By releasing the PDF at the same time or shortly after the book your offering a high quality, legal PDF for a affordable price. Heck part du to the reason people are gonna Pirate Deathwatch is because they want a PDF of it NOW, not 2-3 months from now.

remmus said:

People pirate for a variety of reasons - impatience is one of them, but some people will download a pirated copy of something even if an official downloadable version is available purely because they don't have to pay for it.

Be that as it may, this discussion has been done to death on many previous occasions to no appreciable benefit for anyone. Regarding the matter at hand - piracy aside - the precedent so far is that FFG don't release the PDF of their books until a few months after the hard copy release. Whatever the reason for that may be, that's the situation...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

it´s true the debate doesn´t affect Deathwatch release plan, but still it doesn´t hurt to voice it, to let FFG games know not everyone find there book first, PDF later policy to be fine and dandy.

seriusly it´s the 21 century, company like FFG can´t keep up depending on the main sales come from thick book that costs a arm and a leg.

Except, as pointed out, FFG doesn't have much say in when they release PDFs, because GW have to give them to go ahead to release it, and if GW wants FFG to release the PDF a couple of months after the physical book, that's what happens. You're better off complaining to GW if you want that changed.

I'm going to have to agree with remmus Millandson. I'll probably end up getting the pirated copy of the game if it comes out before the legal PDF, and then buy the legal PDF once it comes out. I enjoy Warhammer 40k quite a bit, but I dislike paying an arm and a leg for the physical copy of any game if it's going end up just taking up space later on down the line when people either switch games, or a new edition comes out. I've still got 3.0 D&D books on my shelf and oWoD books, that are now useless, because few people ever play them anymore. I would have rather saved half my money and gotten a PDF that I'd just save to my removable hard drive (backup), in the hope that one day down the line I might be able to pull it out again.

This is not me saying I'm a pirate, this is me saying I would wish for a PDF version to come out at the same time as the real book, as I'm not going to buy the real book, and I'd like to play the game. A complaint that I probably won't get to play the game (due to only playing online as I don't have a reliable local group) for a couple of months after it's come out. I'll have to read all of the amazing feedback of the game, sit there and fume for a couple of months, and get to the point that I wonder if I really want to actually buy the game, or just let someone with the book build the character for me with my two cents. So, I would have to say that rather than stop or slowing down piracy, I think it might spark it. While I won't keep a pirated copy of the game, I could see others doing so just to give the finger to the company for it taking so long.

If you are correct, and the pirated copy doesn't even come out until the legal PDF or after, why is it such a big deal when the legal PDF comes out? You'd rather give the pirates the will to pirate the game, because there isn't a PDF version, rather than have one already out to combat pirated copies? While you say that it makes business sense, I just don't see it. There are always going to be pirates, absolutely nothing is going to stop people from getting things for free with the internet. However, releasing the game in just a physical format first seems to spit in the face of progression. While I can understand there are a lot of old school gamers that want a physical copy regardless of the price, with the way the economy is, and the progression of RPGs to PDF format, I would have thought most would want them to come out at the same time.

PDF saves money in the printing costs of books, I'm sure there will be a time in the future that the hard copies of games will only be "print as ordered", and everyone will just buy PDF versions. I figured this would be better business sense. Usually saving money is a good thing, no?

Enough with my ranting, I'm sorry if this annoys someone, but these are my thoughts on the subject.

Also, if GW is the one who's doing this Millandson, point me to where I should complain if you could please? I really do want my voice heard.

PIRATED COPIES Will Be sold to those who have 8 years and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to spare. Thats when the Inquisition(BIG BROTHER). Puts the smacked down on you idiots that download and hurt fantasy flight games franchise.

Anybody has some cross words can pucker up!!!

Kagra said:

You do realise saying that on here can, and probably will, get you banned, right? You have just admitted that you plan to get pirated copies of a game on the forum of the company that makes the game.

The fact that the PDF will come out later is no excuse at all. You either buy the book, or wait for the PDF, you shouldn't break the law just because you don't want to pay for the book, or because you are impatient.

MILLANDSON said:

So, you go out of your way not to answer my later question? Also, I said probably, never said I actually would. I am registering a complaint with the company that makes the game, due to the PDF of the game coming out later than the physical copy. Saying "buy the book or wait" isn't very good customer service at all. Going out of your way to not answer my question, just because I mentioned pirated copies of the game, which both of us know will be out there is pretty bad as well. I want to pay for the game, but I do not want to spend an arm and a leg for the physical copy that will just end up taking up space as I have mentioned. I would rather have the PDF version (IE: the only version I'll buy), and if it's not going to come out until two months after the main game, there's a possibility I won't play the game at all. I'm essentially saying "I might borrow a friend's copy until the PDF comes out that I can buy", which I don't see any problem with.

Well, there's what you get for being honest. While they might have expressed it differently, the poster was, I feel, pointing out that FFG (or GW, I don't care) revise their policy with regards to the release of the different media. Thieves are going to pirate the materials regardless. As they say, "Locks are for honest people." While I'm not agreeing or otherwise validating the post of Kagra, perhaps this should be taken by the "powers that be" as an expression that there is an increasing demand for PDF material and they should cater to that.

Hell, as we have more "on demand" cultureKindle, Nook, whateverperhaps they might want to get with the program.

At least, that's how I take it. I don't care whether you want to lay the blame at FFG or GW. The point remains.

Again, though, remember that you've just slammed someone for being honest and wanting to buy the game materials. Think about that for a while. I wish someone in the corporate side of the world would do so since self-evidently they're being a bit slow about it...

Kage

Complaints are always more modivated then complimants. I have no doubt that there are people who would much perfer the PDF come out sooner. And there are those, like myself, who enjoy physical books and therefore, do not care if the PDF comes out at the same time. And there are those who will download a pirated version of the game, and if it's high enough quality, they won't buy it. If it's not high enough quality, they will buy an actual version. So naturaly the release of a high quality PDF which could in turn be unlocked and put on p2p sites quickly, would effect revinue from these people.

FFG is still a company, it still has to make money to operate. Perhaps FFG or GW considered anoying (though likely not loseing) a handful of their customers worth the increased revinue generated by people who buy rather then download high quality pirated copies. Those who are annoyed by this have every right to, and should complain. But do consider that it is very unlikely this desision was made because they felt like it, or because they wanted to annoy you. I'm sure this was a buisness desision that they, at least, have reason to beleave is valid.

Perhaps in the future, with better DRM or what ever other reasons, It will no longer become prudent to release a PDF a couple months later, feel free to let the companies know how upset you are, but don't expect you speak for a majority just because you the only ones speaking.

Note, I'm not slagging off people who want to buy the game. Kudos for that. I just don't see how "the PDF should be out at the same time as the physical book, therefore I am justified in pirating the game because the PDF isn't out at the same time as the book" works. It's not justified at all, but impatient, and illegal, regardless of your moral views on it. That'd be like me saying "I don't want to go to the cinema to see this movie, but I don't want to wait for the DVD, so I'll just pirate it instead". Regardless of whether you plan to buy it when it is available in your preferred medium or not, it's still illegal.

Advocating illegal acts on the forum of the company making the products you plan to pirate is just... well, dumb, and undermines your (very compelling) argument and makes it less likely for them to listen to you, as they will see your comments and just go "pirate = ban" rather than actually listen to your point. You can make your point without advocating breaking the law, and it's generally beneficial for you to do so if you wish your point to be heard by the company involved.

MILLANDSON said:

I wait with baited breath to see the open discussion on the flaws and merits of this situation. While I don't advocacy piracy I'm also flummoxed by those that punish people who are passionate about a product and want to pay for it. Perhaps this is not a question about the tired and unimaginative prosecution of law and corporate R/MIGHTs but one that indicates or otherwise represents a burgeoning desire for "on demand" materials. (Kindle? Nook? Sony?)

Again, though, read the opening part of the second sentence before you nerd-rage.

Kage

I have recently discovered the joys of pdf rpg gaming on my iPad. I no longer have to carry a stack of books to each session I also move to file a complaint that the pdf should be made available upon release of the hard copy book so that all of us gamers can begin playing at the same time. If you need more reasons as to why you should do this here are my best examples as to why this should be done. Typically DMs/GMs carry the most books around (I am one of them) with the advent of pdf gaming many of us have moved to pdfs (admittedly this has generally ment pirated/user made pdf scans due to lack of support for pdf version of older RPG that are still widely played) to cut down on the load we carry with us. I no longer buy hard copies as they tend to wear down, take up space, are less portable, and just an over all pain compared to digital copies which have even more benefits such as searching capabilties, hyperlinking,etc which can aid you when using them in a play session. If a DM/GM doesn't buy your product and instead steers his group towards a different product because it is better, available, and easier to use, then you lose even more customers and as stated above since DMs/GMs are more likely to go digital since it assissts them the most out of all the RPG group members thats not something you want to risk.

Looking forward to DeathWatch.pdf in one form or another.

On a side note, piracy was rampent with .mp3s. Apple release itunes and bam ppl have a good way to buy their mp3s and guess what happened. People bought them and iTunes soared. Video games are highly pirated along comes steam, impulse and others and begins selling to ppl digitally because thats what they wanted and look at steam now. Huge success and growing every day with publishers trying to get their games to the digital market because thats what their users want. Here we have the same pattern, get in and get your act together so that you can ride the wave as digital distribution takes off yet again in yet another industry fighting "piracy". Amazon is gearing up the kindle stores, Apple is gearing up the iBook stores. Get your products in their ASAP!!!!

I have yet to see a rpg book in the Canadian Apple iBook store. That means you don't even have compition in that store for advertising issues. Break into the market and get your new brand known before your competitors due (WotC, etc.)