You can always buy additional dice (those are avaliable) and the additional basic cards will be avaliable with Players Vault. And I think the the Players Vault will cover more then one additional player becouse it's the optional version of the core set so maybe 3 additional players.

LeBlanc13 said:

What kind of silly notion is this? Is my money not good enough for them? Do I need to purchase multiple copies of every product just to keep FFG afloat?

Does everybody you play Settlers of Catan (or whatever other boardgame you prefer) need to own their own copy of that game? Is every copy of a product a limited non-transferable single-person license to play that game?

The direction of that line of thinking is going somewhere I'd prefer to stay as far away from as possible.

LeBlanc13 said:

No it doesn't. WFRP is no ASL. It's possible to learn the rules through play. There's no need to memorize vast tomes of knowledge.

mcv said:

Actually, this silly notion is called Supply and Demand.

The supply of a product is directly related to the demand of the product by consumers. Products will not be made if there isn't a demand for it. Sooooooooooooo, what I was saying is if only one player in a group purchases the product and either photocopies the product for his peers or they go out and get pirated copies, the demand for the game goes down because the game company is only selling one product per gaming group (if that.) The company seeing this apparent lack of demand cancels the product line since it isn't making any money for them.

Comparing Settlers of Catan to an RPG is not quite the same. The board game is built for a certain number of players. With an RPG there is an expectation that every player will purchase a copy of the main rulebook, while every GM gets the GM related products. Now, WFRP3 may muddy the waters a bit since one group of 3 players and a GM can get by with one box, but overall, the gaming company expects people playing the product will actually purchase the product too.

How is that silly?

And who told you that you needed to buy multiple copies? I'm not asking you to purchase books for everyone in your gaming group. All I'm saying is if someone is playing the game and enjoys it, they should buy product to support that gaming company. If everyone thinks that all those other gamers out there can support the company and I'll play off of photocopies or online pirated copies, the company creating the game WILL stop producing it.

I really can't fathom how someone can argue against this. Really?

there are so few RPGamers compared to board gamers. RPG is a such small business that we are gamers AND patrons/sponsors of our RPGs.

When 1 guy buy the game while 5 or more others are not buying any material of their own, you've created business failure of the RPG hobby. Doing so, you're sure that only the biggest survive... And you've got WOTC, a RPG company owned by Hasbro toys.

So, like Leblanc13, I try to convince my player to buy their set of dice, their rulebook... So do I with independant movies or music.

There's a couple wrong assumptions in your post:

LeBlanc13 said:

Who is talking about photocopies and pirating? I pay good money for my games. I've sunk quite a bit of money into WFRP already, and I intent to keep doing that, despite the fact that it's way more expensive than some alternative RPGs that are just as likely to find their way to our gaming table.

The thing about supply and demand is that supply needs to match demand, not the other way around. It's not the customer's job to buy whatever a company produces, whether it matches his demands or not. It's the company's job to make sure their supply matches the demand.

And then there's the matter of competition. I can pay $20 for a complete RPG that is every bit as likely to find its way to our gaming table, or I can pay $200 for a game and be subjected to people like you who claim I don't support the company enough. If the company needs more support from me, then maybe they need to make sure they delivery more value than the competition. Or, if their products are too expensive compared to the demand for them, maybe they should lower their production values a bit. The game is just as playable if it's black & white instead of colour, and most of the art I don't really need that much. And I certainly don't need an extra set of PC standups (unless it really adds more variety, rather than more of the same).

LeBlanc13 said:

You mean like WFRP? The box says it's for GM + 3 players.

LeBlanc13 said:

No there isn't. Not from me, in any case. I've explained this elsewhere. My friends and I buy stuff we want and need, not stuff that other people expect us to buy.

LeBlanc13 said:

And I do. I have purchased the product. And I will purchase more if they are products I need. If a small company generally produces stuff I like, I'll often be giving it the benefit of the doubt when considering whether to buy something, but in general, nobody has a right to expect me to buy stuff. That is my decision, and my decision alone.

LeBlanc13 said:

Every bit of it is.

LeBlanc13 said:

You're suddenly arguing about piracy, which is a totally different topic altogether. I don't condone piracy, but you don't have any right to expect me to pay money for stuff I don't want.

Also, if a product is designed to pull more money out of my pocket than I consider reasonable, it will lose my support, and deserves to die.