I think there is some degree of Nerd rage going on with the announcement which is further bolstered by the ridiculous notion of some that see the Hard Cover books as Vindication that they were right.

Based on the current release schedule the bits format isn't being dropped in the immediate future. We've got several new boxes coming out for it that continue support for this version of the game. Also the Hard Cover books still use the same core rules but will have some supplemental rules that are needed to play the game without using all the bits. This may be something as simple as a bigger character sheet with areas on it that you just drop counters onto.

Realistically the bits method of expansion will eventually come to a point where very few new bits are needed. We don't need a never ending supply of new careers, that's just silly. Perhaps 10-20 more careers (few basic with the bulk of advanced) would basically round out the set. New action cards are welcome but not really needed unless they were planning on making this game an LCG where new action cards trump old action cards. That I think is something most would agree is a bad idea. We don't really need more location cards as there are already plenty and a few here and there in some adventure box sets rounds it out. We don't really need more status, wound or other misc. cards for the most part. So other then the priest box set and maybe one more box set to finish off advanced careers (both normal and magic using) the card based line is largely complete when it comes to the mechanics of the game.

That means all that's left is supplemental rules, settings and adventures. Supplemental rules don't need to be on cards, they never had. Setting books wouldn't need cards beyond maybe some setting or item cards and adventures don't really need new cards either. Gathering Storm has a few unique cards but really they aren't needed. They could have just put out the scenario in pure book format and nothing much would have been lost. This will become even more true after the next few card releases come out.

The important part is that FFG is supporting WFRP they are rounding out the bits game very well with a few critical boxes that fully flush this version of the game. The HC books will be easier/cheaper to produce and easier to stock for retail, which is important to some stores. Some gamers will definitely prefer the book version of the game. We bits lovers, who would never consider playing that way now, can't ignore the fact that they probably have a player or two in their group that wouldn't spend money on their own box set but likely would pick up the Hard Cover rules. Personally while I have no intention of buying the HC version of the book I'm hoping that it does come out in PDF format because that would actually make a PDF version of the rules usable on their own.

In the end the Bits and HC versions based on the information on hand create two versions of the same game and should get all the rules to the same spot. Then they can concentrate on putting out setting/scenario material in one format that works well with whatever medium of the game you prefer.

Lastly for people wanting to do convention style gaming the HC version will make that a lot more palatable. Speaking personally the thought of random strangers touching my bits gives me the cold sweats.

Kryyst,

I agree that this move is not to prove the nay sayers right or wrong, and I have been unhappy with the new edition.

I think what I like best about what FFG has announced with their new products is that both styles of play will be supported going forward.

I was listening to the D6 Generation podcast (episode 60) recently and according to the designer of Battle of Westeros, it seems Jay Little has been teased relentlessly around the office for the amount of backlash received for his re-envisioning of WFRP. Recently, FFG was even posting a position for an assistant game developer to work directly with WFRP3 and Jay. Maybe they are looking to increase their output going forward. So, even though the game is mostly beloved on this website, there are a good number of dissidents out there that are unhappy with the changes that were made.

I find it funny that people are coming out to say, "See, we were right!" That's just petty and wrong. Nowhere does the new product catalog say the old way of playing WFRP3 is gone. It's saying both ways are going to co-exist going forward. Use as many or as few components as you want from the vault products while the rulebooks will support a component heavy or a component light game.

Frankly, I'm happy with the new direction with the intent to support both styles of play. While I'm not a fan of the component heavy game, I don't wish to begrudge anyone else for liking it.

Hopefully, the nerd-rage will not be as bad as you think. Finger-pointing only leads to more finger-pointing and then to full-on Nuclear Nerd Rage!!!!

My own nerd rage just boiled instead of exploding because of this:

ynnen said:

This all I needed to know, and while I will still get the hardback books and new boxes with the same content I already have, dropping the components would have made me quit this game this soon.

One thing I don't get. Some people have purely complained about the format of the game, to many bits = I won't play. Fine I can except that those people would look forward to a book version of the game.

But there is another portion of the audience (based on just feedback on this forum) that have purchased the game, aren't happy about the bits but are even more vocal about things they perceive that are missing, like careers, more detailed rules on a myriad of topics, the movement system and the list goes on.

It's these people I don't get. They seem to be excited/happy about the Book version - but the book version isn't changing the rules, sure it may add some more examples. But it's still the same rules base. Are you so easily amused that you think a format change is going to fix all your perceived rules problems. It's not, still the same game just a different delivery.

I think the ability to play without components without serious conversion on my part is appreciated.

I like the idea of a combined book format with several of the boxed sets revised and combined into hardbacks. This way I don't have to cart around a ton of soft back books to have the "main" rules. Three hardbacks and I'm set for the core products.

As for the rules, I felt the core rules were pretty solid. For me, it was always the HEAVY emphasis on the component usage that I didn't like. I'm still not a huge fan of the dicing conventions, but that is only because I like to know what my chances are of completing a roll before deciding on a course of action. Obviously, that won't change with the advent of the hardback rulebook, but that really wasn't my main gripe.

What I'm happy about.

1. Talents, Skills, Powers being included in text format in a hardback rulebook.

2. Spells collected and included in one rulebook.

3. Main rulebooks down from 5-6 into 3 (and not to mention, in durable hard cover.)

Yes, the main production value is still there and the ability to play the way the game was intended with all the components and bits are there, but it offers the opportunity to add or omit what you want from the bitz provided in the game.

I also like the fact that a players Vault is coming out. I thought that should have been done day one. Forcing everyone to pick up a core box just to get the career cards wasn't very fair in my opinion. If only your GM bought the boxed set, you were all stuck sharing the cards and the rulebooks.

I think this move on FFG's part really helps to allieviate some of the rage generated over the new WFRP3's release while still maintaining the integrity of their re-envisioning of a phenominal campaign world. Personally, I'd like to thank Jay Little for listening to the sometimes overly passionate fanbase without compromising his original intent for the product.

I'd say 'I was right' about one thing and one thing only, that I, and some people in my position would be have been better served by a book and editiable-PDF character sheet.

But thats the extent of what I would say. All this really shows is that Fantasy flight has seen that their is money in them their books. Now why is their money in them their books? Thats the interesting point for discussion.

nice post, Kryyst!

Kryyst said:

I think it is a pretty safe guess to say that we will have more than 10-20 new careers. We already know that the first two Ruinous Power installments (WoM and SoF) both include 10 careers each. We also know that Omens of War will include new careers too, so I guess it is a safe bet that the fourth, Slaneesh-themed set will also include careers (social ones, i.e. probably focusing on the nobility, tradesmen and entertainment – perhaps with a maritime theme twist?) Counting what we have published right now, that means 30 new careers.

But this is not all, because we will also have the Black Fire Pass / dwarf supplement, which will also include new, dwarf-specific careers – we don’t know how many, but I would expect at least four.

Then we don't really know what the future will hold. I am not such a big fan of elves, but if WFRP continues to sell well it is highly likely might get a package for elves. I don’t know if when and how they will add halflings, but I would love it if they add them sooner rather then later. Since we already have quite a few NPC halflings in the adventures, this is a very obvious lack. Since halflings are so entertaining, maybe they would even wriggle themselves into the Slaneesh set? This would surprise me, but since I think that they will publish the Slaneesh set before they will publish another race-based set I hope this will be the case. We miss halflings and I am sure that at least one of my players would love to play one!

LeBlanc13 said:

This is what has made me the most happy. It's not that we haven't created character sheets to do this and whatnot, but it will be nice to have an official product for it. My players are about 50/50 though. Half of them just like having all that stuff on the table and like to be able to handle it. It makes sense though..not all people are visual people. Some people are tactile as well

Best,

Jay

So my thoughts are:

I like the idea of hardcover books - there is nothing better for a GM that the feeling of a good, hardcover book in hands on a game session.

The one thing I don't like is that we are going to have not new stuff but all the old one in new package and format. The only thing that make's it in plus for me is the lite version of the game. but still one thing bothers me - it looks like FFG is trying to please everyone and this can end up bad.

Oh and one more thing, if I got it all right then after reading the new FAQ I means that those 3 are the only one that will be in new format - there will be no more of it. All the other expansion will be caoming in the old format - so one box with cards, tokens, sheets and books. So there will be no more such unpleasend suprises like this one. And that's a good news for me!

I'm curious where the vault sets fit into this. They reference that they add cards/tokens to supplement the guide book versions but is that all that they do or is there extra information in there for people of the current core product. It's a little ambiguous. Now more information will come out closer to launch so this is more curiosity then anything.

I have a feeling this really needs to be "seen" to be sorted out.

From FFG's perspective in making a success of the line, and the indirect interest of those who want to see support for it continue, building a "big tent" is a good idea so appealing to "I like my books and character sheets not bits" crowd may have some sense.

I say that being firmly in the "bits" camp myself. As GM I love looking at table and seeing where fatigue and stress are by seeing the tokens, ditto wounds etc. Of course, I use brightly coloured gaming-stones tokens not the ones supplied with game.

Rob

Seems to me like everyone is getting what they asked for. Those who wanted hard backs, they're getting them. Those who wanted cards in books, incoming. Those who wanted less bits, addon rules so they don't have to use them. Those who like things the way they are, future supplements along the same lines. I'm not seeing the downside here. What are people complaining about?

If FFG did anything wrong, it's trying too hard to make everyone happy. I just don't get people sometimes...

I agree with NezziR - We're simply getting more options rather than forced to do things one way. That's because FFG is thinking outside of its own box and listening to its fans. More than that - how is this game supposed to survive as a line and grow its fan-base if only the Game Master is the one buying the boxes? How do you get people excited about an expensive, but very nice-looking box that they can't open and to see "what's under the hood"? Hell, how many retailers simply say "no" to the boxed set because they don't want $100 game sitting on their shelves? Sure, hardbacks may not be for everyone and it might make the people who threw down the cash for the boxed set a bit jaded (albeit with an awesome set of bits to augment gameplay), but I see this as a good move because it allows more people access to the game and that gives people more opportunity to decide for themselves whether or not they want to buy more WHFRP products in the future.

Long live the Empire!

Ok, I agre with NezziR an Old World Dude that this is geving people more options. It gives all players the chioce if they whant to play with all the cards, tokens and other stuff or they what to play it the old way. And there is something that Jay said - only those 3 are in the new format, all the adventures and expansion will still be comming in boxes (with all in one).

I just don't know how my walet is going to survive this. I'm a huge fan of Warhammer Fantasy and I got a collectors soul so I will buy it all.

Kryyst said:

I think this is seriously underestimating the ingenuity and imagination of the developers. Also if FFG decide to stop making cards and chits it'll basically mean that errata or new ideas will "only" get released as "lite" which I don't think is what they intend.

I am really curious how the "lite" rules will work as I have a hard time imagining how for instance recharge and delay will work - both as to how they'll keep track of actions and recharge on paper and how the GM can easily add delays to actions when he can't see what they are (or how they'll handle the system if they remove recharge...).

42! said:

I think that the Lite version is just the same as normal but You will have it all in the books. So it could mean that the game will be a little bit harder to play. But I'm not sure about it. I'm really curious how the lite version will work. We will have to wait for some more news from Jay Little.

I think the hard cover books are going to be great. I would like the rules combine into one book then spread out between 5 plus you can still buy box set to expand the cards you have.

NezziR said:

I totally agree with this. I'm a little amazed that people are still finding things to be unhappy about. Picking of nits aside, you can't please everyone 100%.