Well, I can't imagine the progenoids have much interesting in game effect. They are "only" there to absorb genetic material for the next generation of Space Marines. So probably more like 14.

Just realised how much the idea of progenoids make no sense... ok, "now" that the knowledge of how to make the Space Marines' implants (from scratch that is) have been been lost they are vitally important, but why create them in the first place? Surely you expect to know how to create them and so don't need some otherwise redundant organ whose sole purpose is to collect the genetic data from the other organs?

Well, I can't imagine the progenoids have much interesting in game effect.

As a matter of fact, they do, albeit partly from a metagaming perspective. I believe Millandson already mentioned somewhere that when a player character dies and has his progenoids harvested, his replacement character becomes a little more powerful.

You would be correct. If the progenoids are harvested from the dead Marine, you get extra XP to spend on your replacement character.

MILLANDSON said:

That sounds interesting... thanks Millandson.

Indeed. Another fan concept has made it's way into the game. (Err, not mine just in case you were thinking. This is one of those topics that have oft been discussed over the years.)

Kage

MILLANDSON said:

Reminds me of Bushido RPG where karma of a dead PC would carry on to a new character.

Alex

Of course this also means that someone will have to be an apothecary. I mean, its not a bad thing, its just not quite as glorious as being an assault marine in the thick of it.

Why? Apothecaries Quite often specialize in close range combat. Also, they'd make a natural choice for a Kill-Team leader.

I believe most of the Leadership stuff was put into the Tactical career.

Other than that, the ingloriousness of being the dedicated healer is generally lessened when that healer still is a towering power-armoured angel of death, so...

Cifer said:

Actually, whilst Tactical Marines do make very good leaders, all Marines have the ability to get leadership-based skills and talents. So it's perfectly reasonable that an Apothecary might be made leader of a kill-team, just as any other Speciality could be made leader.

MILLANDSON said:

You probably wouldn't make a specialist like an Apothecary, Sniper, Devastator or Techmarine the leader, because they would have other duties they might need to perform when leading needs to happen.

On the flip side a specialist, like an apothecary might be better able to understand the threat the party is dealing with, and their area of expertise could be an asset when making command decisions.

My girlfriend played the Apothecary in the demo and had a great time with it. She managed to break at least one Horde by herself, due to her penchant for running forward and throwing grenades at people's faces.

Darq said:

I would probably run it like the packs from Werewolf used to be. You have 5 different specialist types in that game and each one takes over leadership when their speciality is relevant. After all these guys aren't newbie space marines they're experienced enough to be seconded to Deathwatch. Space Marines are special forces a la the SAS and they really don't need an officer running around telling them what to do or even a sergeant for that matter.

Someone said earlier in the thread that orks and genestealers would be as strong as space marines. Well, yes for the big orks and an average genestealer. As orks continue to grow their entire lives and are functionally immortal some of them do reach the highest of Nobhood and are thus comparable to space marines in strength and toughness (but not in intelligence or strategy). Genestealers are capable of shredding a marines armour like tissue paper if you let them get close to you they're supposed to be extremely scary and range is the ONLY advantage a marine is supposed to have over them.

The reason the Emperor created the marines was precisely because lots of enemies were so individually powerful he needed an appropriate counter. Certainly they could cut down Imperial Guard level troops without breaking a sweat. They're different on so many levels to normal humans it's not just the raw strength and toughness that represents it. Remember an Imperial Guard or an Inquisitors acolytes are likely to die before they could ever max out their stat line as they're so fragile (and expendable).

From the Into the Storm spoilers I was kinda surprised to read that Orks get Unnatural Strength to start with, since it just seems at odds with what you'd logically extrapolate from the tabletop game and Inquisitor (old I know, but the stats aren't a bad basis for comparison).

But then, the Freebooter starts out the equivalent of a Rank 5-6 DH character, so I suppose he's not a standard Boy, like the NPC's. And glancing at the NPC section of the RT book, the one they have there doesn't have Unnatural Strength anyway... or maybe I'm just remembering the **** spoiler thread wrong.

As for Genestealers and Orks, they look about right actually. Creatures Anathema only gives Unnatural Strength to Nobz, which seems right to me. While Genestealers just get Unnatural Agility, which also seems right because they're known more for being quick and agile, and sneaky (and still have pretty good S and T anyway). It's their claws that were what made them really dangerous afterall, and Space Marines are still definitely superior to either. Still wouldn't want to fight a Genestealer in melee though.

From the Into the Storm spoilers I was kinda surprised to read that Orks get Unnatural Strength to start with, since it just seems at odds with what you'd logically extrapolate from the tabletop game and Inquisitor (old I know, but the stats aren't a bad basis for comparison).

Orks get Unnatural Toughness from the start - Unnatural Strength is reserved for high level Freebootaz and npc Nobs. It's Kroot that get Strength (and can later buy Perception).

Ahh, should have known I had it wrong after I glanced at the other material.

Thanks for the correction, I hate to spread misinformation.