40 s buys a longbow DR 5 CR 3 Long range with chance of extreme range (+1 Challenge), pierce, 2 handed weapon

5 g buys you pistol Dr 6 CR 2 close range, pierce, unreliable 2, reload

Just seems unfair to someone who wants to have a character with a gun to start with. You must buy affluent for 3 creation points. While to own a longbow you could be poor for 1 creation point.

And in terms of combat the archer can keep people at a distance and not need to use manuevers to reload. While the gunman has to spend manuevers to reload, stay close to the enemies and run the risk of his gun malfunctioning.

Aside from flavour I see very little reason why someone who wants to have ranged attacks would choose to be a gunman rather than an archer. Not to mention that if you want to have the same range as a longbow you need the rifle that costs 12 g.

Nope, because it isn't all about stats. Blackpowder weapons are symbols of prestige and are hard to get. Bowyers are relatively common, and longbows and arrows are cheap to make. Engineers to make blackpowder weapons are rare, and it is a long, expensive, and dangerous process to make the powder, and the metal for the shot isn't as cheap as wood for arrows either.

Thus you have a more uncommon and specialized artisan required to create the weapon, as well as to create the ammunition and specialized powder charges. This will translate into a heftier price to acquire one.

So, what I am saying is ... the prices of blackpowder weapons are fine, they should be expensive regardless of whether they are "better" in actual combat usage.

The fact that flavor in Warhammer is often more important than stats is one of the aspects that make this world & RPG system so appealing to me. A witch hunter with a longbow? Absurd! He is not a wimpy elf or a primitive man of the woods. For a real witch hunter style and appearances – being a representative of the empire with its powerful forgeries and ingenious engineers – is at least as important as the sheer effectiveness of a weapon.

Fear him, for he will bring you down with the fire of his pistols and purge you with the fire of the pyre on which you will burn!

Seriously people, forget the stats and use your imagination (which could lead to roleplaying). In the case of weapons and gaming scenarios, different sorts of tools for different purposes.

Here is for example a scene where (witch) hunter named Uli is chasing a monster in dark narrow tunnels. Obviously, Uli left his stinky longbow at home. After all, it is a gay elves weapon and does not even properly fit in those caves anyway. So his chosen weapon is his new pistol which cost a ransom but is worth every crown because it makes him feel like a man. He has heard that the lurking monster carries some nasty disease so he does not want any close contact. He plans to give it just one shot in the head. After this cannon shot it should be dead. Now he is deep in the tunnels with pistol in his right and torch in his left hand. Even with lightsource he can see maybe ten meters at best. Suddenly a breeze of freezing air distingushes the fire and leaves him in utter darkness. Now he is at mercy of his hearing ability which unfortunately has gotten worse after few practices with that pistol. Uli consentrates and sharpens his senses and continues, the beast must be near. There it is! He hears steps in front of him and sees even darker monstrous shadow approaching. Like a flashlight the burning gunpowder lights the caverns. Then only darkness and ringing in his ears. Uli can feel his heart racing like never before. The picture is burned in his mind like a painting. A lightning struck wet mossy cavern wall and mouse with glowing eyes in the corner.

Hmmmm. Looks like the responses so far confirmed how our group is treating the use of guns vs bow. Which is that use of guns is a flavour thing.

Just seems unfair that you need to spend crazy amounts of money to be less effective at ranged attacks.

I do like one of the previous posters example of a situation where a bow would not work.

Blackpowder weapons do have 2 advantages:

DR 6 vs DR 5

and

CR 2 vs CR 3

Other than the shorter Range (in general) and the Unreliable trait, blackpowder weapons are actually superior (slightly) to other ranged weapons. Basically, they wash pretty close to even in effectiveness. So, I wouldn't necessarily say they are "less effective". I find, for example, that combats are rarely at long range, and when they are they rarely stay that way. So, the range advantage (when there is one) is slight. It's also unlikely that a ranged attack will have 2d difficulty, let alone roll the 2 Chaos Stars needed to trigger the Unreliable result, so that is slight as well.

Yes, the big difference in cost is "flavor".

Yes most combat situations don't stay at long range but if it starts out that way. The manuevers/fatigue to close the distance is important.

Not to mention that a pistol requires a manuever to reload.

It would be interesting to play out a pistol weilding character versus a longbow man and see who comes out on top. Does the pistol win due to slightly higher dmg and crit output or does the archer out manuever the gunman by shooting and staying at medium range?

Two characters created from scratch with the same stats and skills where one uses affluence to buy a pistol versus one who uses it to buy a longbow plus good armor. My money is one the archer.

frankcastle1975 said:

Yes, mine would be too. But characters, skills etc. in WFRP are not developed in a way that they need to be “balanced” for combat situations. Combat is only one aspect of this role playing game and the main focus is on story telling. You give out fortune points for good story telling and nice ideas. So a good GM should for example reward his maniac gun wielding show-off dilettante with a fortune point when he tells him that he does not let himself be intimidated by that strange fellow who runs around in the city with one of these primitive things of the woods. (You do not gain XP for killing a monster!) With his impressive pistol he might even impress the lady that he is trying to protect (or to kidnap?) in a way that will be useful to him when he interacts with her later.

I am only repeating this point because I think making the min-maxing comparisons between different weapons, stats or careers really misses the point that makes Warhammer FRP such an outstanding RPG: its focus on story-telling and social interactions. You and your GM should let all of your actions (and the rewards for your actions) be guided by the interest in telling a good (and probably grim) story. Otherwise everyone would run around with spears and longbows, using the same actions all the time… because they are better from a min-maxing perspective. This is not "just about flavor". This is what makes this system so unique and interesting.

Thematically, to me the longbow use is about keeping distance and sniping, the pistol user is about shooting and charging in, or charging in and using a shot to down the one trying get away later.

It's on GM to set tone by letting combats have lots of long range instances or setting them in places with more short range or combo of both.

frankcastle1975 said:

I wouldn't pit a Pistol vs Longbow. I would try Handgun or Hochland Rifle vs Longbow, as they are more similar in usage.