Why not Avalos? Do they just have a PDF? Why? Too few people?

thegonk said:

Every planet is required by the Lex Imperialis to possess a PDF force to defend it in times of invasion. It is then also required to submit unto the Imperium a tithe of resources for the Imperium to use. In some cases, this is regiments of Guardsmen, but it's just as likely to be machinery, weapons, vehicles, raw materials or chemicals, or food., used either to supply the armed forces of the Imperium directly, or to supply other worlds (for example, an Agri-world supplying food to a hive world that makes Lasguns).

On top of that, in time of emergency, the Departmento Munitorum can descend upon any world, and take some or all of the world's PDF, plus anyone else it sees fit, as a new Imperial Guard regiment, though this tends to produce poorer-quality regiments than those raised as part of the tithe from worlds with long-standing military traditions (like Cadia and Krieg), as the men can only be given the most basic of training.

Also, broadly speaking, Imperial Guard regiments tend to be taken off-world to fight in other warzones; a world sufficiently stable to raise its PDF doesn't need an Imperial Guard garrison... because that's what the PDF are for. Consequently, any Avalos Imperial Guard are likely to be anywhere but Avalos. PDF don't have to be poor troops either - consider that Cadia's PDF (the Interior Guard, as it's locally known) is identical to the Guard forces it ships off in terms of quality, structure and equipment, given that all regiments are trained as Interior Guard, and then the ones to be sent away as part of the tithe are picked at random.

Further to the mention of Tithing above, there are different Tithe Grades, that determine how much you're meant to fork over to the Administratum and other organisations. One such grading is Adeptus Non, which means the planet pays no Tithe. This could because the planet is important enough in its own right to not require a Tithe, is a planet with a very specific task (like a frontier research post) and is therefore unable to produce any sort of Tithe, or is a Marine Homeworld (pretty sure most of them are Adeptus Non), or just that the world cannot produce anything worthwhile to even bother having a Tithe Grading.

In fact... *fires up Lexicanium* ... here we are:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tithe_Grade

It's not a detailed explanation, but it should be fairly obvious what the difference between Tithe Grading Exacta Primus and Exacta Extremis is.

BYE

from france

some planets can't have, don't have.....;; enough population to defend themselves ethier be it in the forms of army or pdf. i recall that the fluff that some mercenary armies exist for this purpose. i know that in the last einsenhorn book a meceneray compagny is described. their job is not protecting a planet but it just to prove teh existence of mercenaries army because i remenber a talk with friends and some absolutly believe that their was no private armies the size of guard or pdf regiment.

some planet don't need pdf:

- scientific or military outpost.

- planet under the control of the mechanicum. they are part of the imperium as partner. their population goes to the skitari.

- maybe planet under the protection of sdpace marine chapter like the empire of ultramar. because the space marines are autonomous. i must admit i am not sure on that one. but i think it s logique that hey decide where the population go in defence of the imperium.

- pleasure word...........?

- non viable planet use for exploitation only and the population live in orbital station. okay this one is not really a planet.

- planet like quadis with a unclear status.

at the opposit some planet almost only gives soldier:

-cadia

-catachan

with luck the right commander require the right regiment and the right departomato ministorum don't make mistake. and you have the ideal regiemental for the ideal planet like:

valhala for ice planet

tarlarn for desert

catachan for jungle.............

Actually most Space Marine homeworlds have their own PDF, sometimes it's made up of failed Astartes candidates on others that are civilised industrial worlds (like Ultramar) it can be a sizable force itself. The Ultramar PDF are effectively IG regiments that police the 12 UIltramar systems and played a significant part in the defence against the hive fleet.

Basically any planet with a significant population has a PDF of some form or another.

thegonk said:

Sorry, but I'm not sure to understand your question (or, exactly, why you ask this).

Indeed, we don't know if Avalos contribute to Imperial Guard.

Perhaps it does.

If your question is, in fact, why there is no IG regiment on Avalos, this is not related to wether Avalos contribute to IG or not.

IG regiments are not raised to protect their homeworlds.

They are mainly raised to make war against the ennemies of humanity.

This means that they mostly contribute to crusades or are issued to reinforce FDP on worlds, already, at war.

So, in this case, I would say that the monitorum doesn't seem to think Avalos important enough for an IG regiment to stay permanently there.

In fact it seems to me that Avalos is either an Imperial World or an Agri-World from the description. They do have a manufactorum, but that could be for things on the planet and not for mass production for the Imperium like a Forge World.

SpawnoChaos said:

Doesn't it say in there they produce fuel, vital to the fleet?

Darq said:

I'd have to re-read it to be sure. Without any maps (or more descriptions) it is hard to say how large these manufactorums are. They may provide fuel for the fleet in the system, but I get the feeling that this backwater planet is not providing anything else significant.

Face Eater said:

A PDF is very different to a tithed force of Guardsmen. PDF aren't the same thing as the Imperial Guard at all.

BYE

from france

not entirely true some planet for lack of better term have only pdf force and the guard regiment that are tithed from the planet are tithed from their best pdf regiment. as usual in 40k it s difficult to generate.

so by the magic of a munistorum pencil they goes from pdf to guard in unit in a moment.

H.B.M.C. said:

What do you mean?

PDF and IG are practically identical. In fact, a planet's IG regiments are going to pretty much look exactly like their PDF. The only differences are that they are going to be shipped off to some distant warzone, and that they are likely to have more heavy equipment (tanks, artillery, etc.).

Atheosis said:

They are nowhere even remotely similar.

A PDF is, depending on the planet in question made up of what is best for that particular planet.

Examples:

You've got Necromunda's PDF, which is made up of ex-gangers with the officers being members of the noble families.

You've got Gudrun's PDF, which is made up of all volunteers with officers being either former Guard who've been reassigned to the planet, career PDFers who are also looking to go into the Imperial Guard. That seems to be Dan Abnett's personal favorite, as it's appeared in both the Eisenhorn/Ravenor books and the Gaunt's Ghosts novels("Traitor General" and "Necropolis" in particular).

Then you've got the fortress planets like Cadia and their "Interior Guard". These are for all intents and purposes, the planet's defense force, but in actuality they're full blooded Guard regiments that are permanently assigned planetside.

Atheosis said:

You're both correct.

On some worlds, there's a big difference between PDF and Imperial Guard, requiring a good deal of restructuring and rebuilding when the former is taken away to become the latter. On others, particularly worlds which routinely tithe regiments, the PDF is deliberately structured and equipped in the same way as the Imperial Guard in order to make the transition easy. Cadia's Interior Guard are the clearest example of this, as they're all technically PDF forces except those parts chosen to become Imperial Guard regiments... but they're all trained and equipped in an identical manner.

However, a big distinction remains. A PDF force does not belong to the Imperium. Individual worlds raise and maintain their PDF forces in whatever way, shape or form is desired by the Imperial Commander, etc. There's no common standard, because there doesn't need to be. There is, however, a common standard for Imperial Guard regiments, defined by the Departmento Munitorum for ease of organisation, supply and training, which is adhered to as closely as possible. An Imperial Guard regiment will still identify with its homeworld, but it belongs to the Imperium and retains no official ties with its home, meaning that the Imperium can do what it likes with the Imperial Guard.

Now, broadly speaking, worlds not required to tithe have no requirement to raise PDF forces. That doesn't mean that they don't create some form of defence force, but it means that more differences can creep in. A Forgeworld, strictly speaking, doesn't have a PDF. It has a standing army of Skitarii (used collectively, as a synonym for "Mechanicus armed forces"). An Astartes world has a Space Marine chapter and its serfs, plus the native population (which, depending on the type of world, may well be warriors in their own right), though there's a lot of variation here - for example, Rynn's World (home to the Crimson Fists Chapter) has a native PDF force in addition to the Astartes who live there, while Fenris doesn't, but does have a naturally militant populace, extremely dangerous wildlife, and volatile terrain.

from france

don't forget that some equipement and vehicule are forbidden to pdf and restricted to the guard. again cadia can be a exception. can't remenber where i read it but heavy quality vehicules and equipements are ban in fear of revolte. pdf must fend off invasion or hold enough forreinforcement to come.

the probleme arise when the revolted world happens to be a forge world producing equippement and vehicules for the guard..........

This also ties in with Tithe Grade. On Cadia, the tithe grade is 'Adeptus Non', and all regiments raised are purposed towards defending Cadia and surrounding systems - making them a PDF in all but name - but they are Imperial Guard and arguable the best equipped and trained in the 40k galaxy. It varies a lot from world to world. Perhaps an Agri World should have a PDF regiment but the Governor fakes the paperwork with corrupt officials for his own ends, or it could simply be a bunch of farmer boys with antiquated lasguns. On the other hand, the PDF could be hardened veterans descending from or actually being retired guardsmen having settled on the most recent world they conquered when the campaign or crusade ended and they were honorably discharged.

The 40k universe is a very diverse place, and to say that a world should have a PDF does not make it so, and the PDF will vary from untrained louts with great motivation (you can read the Ciaphas Cain novels for inspiration) to highly trained household troops of nobles with everything in between. But in general: yes, worlds should have a standing PDF, which is different from the Imperial Guard though foundings of the Guard can also be drawn from the PDF - and vice versa.

Really PDF should be seen as just a title; it could be comprised of ex-Guardsmen, locals with antiquated weapons, tank platoons, or little Timmy from around the street corner.

Every planet is different and their PDF's will reflect their origins, whether off-world or on-world staffed.

Spawno is right, PDF is a catagory, not a particular group. Imperial Responce Times are not exactly extrodinary, an swift responce for millitary aid by an important planet can still mean 2-3 months before Imperial forces arive. Because of this, every planet has to have (in theory) the ability to hold out against invasion for about that long. How exactly a planet does that is up to the Planet's own whims. It may be a standing army, a millitia, stationed mercenaries or something else entirely, however each planet needs a way to defend itself until Imperial forces can arive (if they arive).