I've been the overlord for 4 dungeons in the base Descent game (with the same group of players) and each has followed the same format:

1. Heroes arrive and I play traps and spawn whenever possible.

2. I manage to kill 2 - 3 heroes (often the same hero 2 - 3 times).

3. Heroes get to treasure chests and gain improved items.

4. Traps and spawned monsters now have little effect; serve only to slow heroes down slightly.

5. Heroes get more treasure chests and even more improved items.

6. Heroes reach named monster lair ("boss battle") and one-shot every monster.

Ugh. Something just doesn't seem right. Last night, we played Quest 4 ("Spoiled Brat"). Despite playing Dark Charm (dropped Runewitch Astara to 3 health) and Brilliant Commander (upgraded one giant to master) just prior to the party opening the door to Area 6, they killed every monster in their first turn. Both the enhanced dragon and master giant were killed with one shot each.

It seems to me that no matter how well the heroes do throughout the rest of the dungeon, they should have real trouble with the last battle. Instead, the heroes abilities just seem to ramp up so much that - once they make it half-way through the dungeon - they are basically guaranteed a victory.

Is this the way the game normally plays? Do I have to defeat the heroes in the first 2-3 areas in order to win?

Other than house rules or rewriting the quest (add 30 health and 20 armor to the boss monsters), I'd really welcome any tips on making the final battle(s) more of a threat to the heroes.

This is the way the game normally plays. I the heroes make it to the final room and you don't have a lot of threat and traps built up to stop them, they'll probably win. If they do that and also manage to get the gold chest(s) they're almost guaranteed a win. You have to have won before then, or be well-prepared to stop them from insta-killing the boss.

A few pointers:

- Don't play most power cards. Evil Genius is good, and if gotten early Doom can be nice. Brilliant Commander is rarely worth the cost, though some maps (like those with lots of Dark Priests) change that. Usually though, they're better used to get threat for spawns and traps.

- Don't play traps just to play traps. Play them only when it will drastically alter a hero's turn by preventing them from getting where they wanted to get, or when they'll kill someone.

- Don't play chest or door traps. There are times when they're useful, but unless you're going to hit more than one hero with them, the ones that cause status effects or damage are way over-costed. You're better off saving them to discard for threat. Mimic and the monkey curse are diffierent, as the first is practically a guaranteed kill (or a hero that can't attack the boss for a long time) and the second can work wonders in keeping the heroes from getting those uber gold treasures at the end.

- Never be nice. You might not have been, but some people hold back to have a "more fair" or "more fun" game. That's fine if that's what you're looking for, but Descent is pretty well balanced between heroes and OL, so if you're holding back for any reason, don't expect to win.

James McMurray said:

I've been there and I feel your pain. As a matter of fact, I'm getting ready to OL the Spoiled Brat quest myslef. I go into knowing it will be fun no matter who wins.

Try using the crushing block trap to seperate the heroes from each other, forcing them to split up and go seperate directions (if the map allows it).

You can also use Dark Charm after the heroes have gotten a pretty good gold lvl weapon that they intend to use on a boss.

Also, heroes can only drink one potion per turn and can only use a glyph to go to town once per turn.

James McMurray said:

Thanks for the feedback. I may actually have been holding back a little early on (I come from an RPG background and slip into the DM role somtimes) but I think I may have missed the potential of a few of the treachery cards you mentioned. For one, I just re-read Doom! and realized that it's effect applies throughout the game - I thought it was just for one area. A few questions on your suggestions:

1. How is the mimic card a "guaranteed kill?" I thought it just turned a chest into a beastman (more or less).

2. What about dodge cards? Should I save them for bigger fights or are they better early when the heroes are not that powerful?

3. Are there particular monster spawn card that are better than others later in the game? (e.g., a "flock" of vanilla razorwings just isn't much of a threat).

1. How is the mimic card a "guaranteed kill?" I thought it just turned a chest into a beastman (more or less).

Sorry, I got my "first" and "second" backwards. The monkey curse is the almost guaranteed kill.

2. What about dodge cards? Should I save them for bigger fights or are they better early when the heroes are not that powerful?

I tend to save them all for the boss in vanilla quests, but that's just me. If you've got a monster that's stopping the heroes from moving forward, especially if it's one with Stealth, then dodge can be good then as well.

3. Are there particular monster spawn card that are better than others later in the game? (e.g., a "flock" of vanilla razorwings just isn't much of a threat).

I don't think so. At least not any that are going to be better in the late game than the early one. Kobold Swarm can be better late game if you draw Doom!, but at speed 3 the little buggers are still going to have a devil of a time actually hurting someone before they die, no matter how many dice you give them. There are definitely spawns that aren't worth playing the vast majority of the time, like high-cost spawns that give you a single large slow monster. I never have much luck with Bane Spiders either, though we play a lot of campaign dungeons and large monsters are even less maneuverable on those smaller maps.

Some spawns will actually be better in the early game than in the late one. For example, the aforementioned kobold swarm. Though still only speed 3, they're not as fragile early on since there won't be any breath weapons to worry about. Also, the earlier you play them the longer the masters can stay alive to boost your traps (or trick the heroes into backtracking to kill them).

Also, heroes can only drink one potion per turn and can only use a glyph to go to town once per turn.

We argued a little about the glyph issue. The heroes used activated glyphs to effectively "teleport" behind monsters (one of the heroes was the Runewitch). They claimed that since they were using different glyphs (enter one to go to town and come back through another), they weren't using "a glyph" more than once per turn.

Well, that will frustrate even the most seasoned OLs

Are you playing with treachery? altar of Despair expansion?

One great way to stop glyph abusing heroes are the cursed glyphs such as the "sundered" (green) glyph or the red spawn one.

Also, treachery cards such as "dark servant" are great ways to keep your onslaught moving and crushing.

I'd take much of the previous posted advice, and save cards for game changing moments that will impede the heroes' progress. Be one nasty mutha of an Overlord.

Marximus said:

Also, heroes can only drink one potion per turn and can only use a glyph to go to town once per turn.

We argued a little about the glyph issue. The heroes used activated glyphs to effectively "teleport" behind monsters (one of the heroes was the Runewitch). They claimed that since they were using different glyphs (enter one to go to town and come back through another), they weren't using "a glyph" more than once per turn.

Absolutely ungh-ungh!

Ninjaman65 said:

Crushing Block cannot be played next to other obstacles, so you can't ever use it to completely block off a passage (otherwise, you could easily make the quest impossible). You could use a combination of Crushing Block and a monster to block off a passage, but if the heroes take another route instead of killing the monster, that's just bizarre.

Marximus said:

While the wording doesn't absolutely exclude that reading, I think it's a pretty big stretch.

Linguistic issues aside, the most important thing this rule does is prevent heroes from entering the dungeon via a glyph, doing something, and then going back to town on the same turn - so the monsters never get a chance to attack. Since their interpretation would still allow this tactic (even if it makes it harder), it's a very bad idea. If FFG came out with an official clarification saying that your players were right, I would instantly house rule it.

Regarding the general issue of monsters failing to scale up to higher-level treasures, that's one of several problems I attempted to fix in The Enduring Evil , my homebrew variant. The monsters can survive more punishment in general, and higher-tier monsters are balanced against higher-tier weapons. It's an extensive change to the game, but if you don't want all the monsters to die in one shot from gold weapons, you need to make extensive changes to keep everything balanced, so it may still be your best option if you want that sort of combat.

Otherwise, you should generally try to win before the final room. I usually look the quest over in advance and pick a hard-looking room about half-way through to try to focus my efforts on.

James McMurray said:

+1

I personally love the Beastman War Party spawn, just spawn it a time there are several mobs on the board. The master gives +1 damage and range to all monsters within 3 spaces. Spawned in a good time you can gimp the heroes alot, and hopefully kill 1 or 2 heroes.

I also tend to save at least 1 dodge card for the final battle, but normally if the heroes reach the last room they win nonetheless.

Regarding the glyphs: "A hero may only use a glyph once per turn—he may not use a glyph to go to town and then return, or vice versa. Glyphs are not items and cannot be picked up or moved."(page 17 Descent - Journeys in the dark). It is probably possible to play it as your group did, but I dont believe any other groups play it that way. To my understanding its one way each turn, nothing more. Doing it your way will make it nearly impossible for the OL to slow the heroes down enough to stand a chance to win. Nonetheless, the most important with the game is to have fun with your friends. Rule it as you see it best, and most fair. I wish you good luck with this great game.

Antistone said:

If you don't mind me asking, where in the rules is that stated? I don't recall seeing it say that anywhere. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just didn't know that. Good think I haven't been successful yet!

Nevermind. I found it. It says it right on the card!

There's also a slightly different version of the restriction in the FAQ, but neither one allows you to play Crushing Block adjacent to an existing impassable obstacle.