Do the reductions in cost of the Wildling Horde and Defenders of the North armies apply during setup?

Mantaeus said:

Rulebook:

Cards are considered neither “played”
nor “put into play” when revealed during setup.
Thus, any card effect that triggers after being
played from your hand or when “put into play”
will not trigger when revealed during setup.

Nope. The only effects that work during Setup are the Limited and Setup keywords.

eloooooooi said:

And Core Set Eddard.

Maester_LUke said:

I thought that a card can enter play either by being played or put into play.

Core Set Eddard? Why so?

Anyway, I'm referring to terms used in the rulebook. Some cards also interact with the Setup phase if they say so.

Maester_LUke said:

No. Core Set Eddard does not work in Setup. He does not get the power. Pretty much no text is active during Setup unless it specifically says it is.

ktom said:

See Ktom, this is why I started adding "unless rulings were changed" to my vocabulary. Are they gonna have you on speed dial during the events at GenCon?

Maester_LUke said:

~ Yeah, well, a jerk like me could still point out it has worked like this for years.

Speed dial? I doubt it. Cell reception and ambient noise is usually crap in those halls.

ktom said:

Sorry for exhuming an old post but I was wondering where it is said that no text is active during Setup. I found nothing but the part Rogue was quoting that just refers to "when played/when enters play" effects.

By the way, are traits "active" during setup ? there's a discussion about the Black amethyst on the french board about that. How does that attachement works during setup ? Can you attach it to any character during setup because its "Asshaî character only" restriction is not active ?

Arthur Lannister said:

(2.1) Card Effects in Setup
Cards revealed during setup do not trigger card
effects. This includes cards that contain the
text "When put into play" or "When played
from your hand." No actions may be taken
during the setup phase.

So the "cards revealed do no trigger card effects" covers Eddard - as well as every other passive effect. The fact that "no actions may be taken" covers all other effects.

Combine that with the facts that no cards are actually "played" or "put into play" when you place and reveal cards during Setup and that there is no player action window during Setup and the practical reality tells you that active or not, pretty much no card text (other than the Limited and Setup keywords) applies during Setup - even if we didn't have the rule in the FAQ.

So the shorthand "pretty much no card text is active during Setup unless it specifically says it is" is covered both by the FAQ and practical timing.

Arthur Lannister said:

If we follow the rules for hidden cards (such as cards in Shadows), the traits on a card are not considered actionable or "working" until the card's identity is revealed. For example, playing Tyrion into Shadows does not count as playing a Lord because even the identity of the card as Tyrion is hidden when you play him into Shadows. You did not play a "Lord" in any way that is meaningful. So technically, when you place your Setup hand, you could place an attachment that said "Setup" and "Asshai character only" on any character during Setup because neither the "Asshai character only" on the attachment or the "Asshai" trait of the attached card are revealed information yet.

Of course, as soon as you reveal the cards during the next step in Setup, the "constant requirement" of the "Asshai character only" will discard the attachment as illegal. (Note that since the attachment restriction is constant, it is not a card effect "triggering"). So the attachment ends up in your discard pile and you gain absolutely nothing (except possibly getting 1 card deeper into your deck when you "draw up" during Setup) by attaching the Setup card to an illegal card during Setup.

Don't be surprised if they close this loophole in a future FAQ and define the "Setup" keyword as needing to meet all attachment restrictions, even while hidden.

Thanks for those explanations Ktom.

And sorry for the spoil, "Mountains" of the moon is available in France since tuesday and I forgot it wasn't in the USA.