Nightmares etc vs Reinforcements

By sbarnabas, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

What happens when Nightmares is played against Summer Reinforcements? This came up in a game, and we really had no idea how to resolve it.

Nightmares doesn't do anything against Summer Reinforcements, or any other "token" character.

Here is the way I usually explain it. Let's say that you had a location that said "Challenges: Play only if you have lost a challenge this phase. Pay 1 gold and kneel this location to put the top card of your deck into play, face-down, as an Army character with 4 STR, Deadly, a MIL icon, an INT icon and a POW icon." You use that location and put a card into play as a character. Now, if you use Nightmares on that character, what happens? Nothing, right? Because the card has no printed text box to blank. But what happens if you used Nightmares on the location that created that character? Again, nothing, right? Because once the location's ability creates that character out of the random face-down card, there is nothing tying the location and the "token" character together. The location could leave play and the face-down character would still be a character with those particular stats, right?

Well, Summer Reinforcements is doing the exact same thing as that example, except that the card turned into the same character is the same card that had the original effect. Once the "token" character is created, it is not tied to the text that created it, even though that text is on the same physical card. You can blank the text that created the character, but it does not "unmake" the character or the stats given to it when it was created.

Ok, I think I understand. I have a follow-up question, though... Does this mean that cards like The Viper's Rage don't affect Reinforcements cards, since they don't have the icons to lose? Or, since Viper's Rage affects all characters, not the card itself, they would still lose the icons on the "token" that's created?

sbarnabas said:

Ok, I think I understand. I have a follow-up question, though... Does this mean that cards like The Viper's Rage don't affect Reinforcements cards, since they don't have the icons to lose? Or, since Viper's Rage affects all characters, not the card itself, they would still lose the icons on the "token" that's created?

You're missing an important distinction here. The Reinforcements have icons to lose. What they don't have are printed icons to lose. But effects like The Viper's Rage aren't looking at printed icons.

Essentially, the text that creates a Missing Recruit character gives it +1 MIL icon - the same as if you used something like Rusted Sword on Bran Stark from the Core Set. If another effect gives it -1 MIL icon, it is subject to the same icon checks as any other character. So +1 MIL - 1 MIL = 0 MIL icons.