I have two unrelated questions about Ramirez's Brothers Bomb:

<< Hardware • As an action, you may place this token on your current circle. Then, at the end of each successive character’s activation, you must move this token two circles. The first time this movement takes the Brothers Bomb adjacent to any character (even you) it explodes, dealing four automatic attack successes to every character in all circles adjacent to it.

The Brothers Bomb does move at the end of the activation in which it was placed. It only explodes when its movement moves it into a circle adjacent to a character, so it does not explode immediately upon being placed. >> [boldfacing as in text in rulesbook]

1) "You" and "your" are used four times in this description. If this always refers to Ramirez, then killing Ramirez causes a deployed Brothers Bomb to stop moving, since there is no one to direct its movement. However, killing Ramirez does NOT stop a deployed Brothers Bomb if only the 1st, 2nd, and 4th "you/your" in this description refer to Ramirez, while the 3rd "you" refers to the Player playing Ramirez. Which is it?

2) The Brothers Bomb is disposable equipment, as indicated by the hatching around the rim of the token. Disposable equipment can be picked up using the "Pick Up Equipment" action. Since the Bomb only detonates when IT moves adjacent to a character (as emphasized by boldfacing in the rulesbook text), and NOT when a character moves adjacent to it, then it follows that a character may move adjacent to the Brothers Bomb, pick it up, add it to their inventory, and deploy it themselves on a subsequent activation. Does anyone disagree? If so, based on what?

Thanks,

Don

DHFrew3 said:

Actually, I think all four you/your instances refer to the player. The first two are used thusly: "you may place this token on your current circle." Ramirez himself does not have a token, he has a little remote-controlled bomb. He also doesn't live his life hopping from circle to circle. I think it's fairly obvious "current circle" should be defined as the circle Ramirez currently occupies, if you want to debate that you'll have to wait for another poster as I have no intention of splitting hairs like that.

I agree with the assessment that the bomb will keep moving after Ramirez dies.

DHFrew3 said:

I would like to disagree with this, but I have no basis in the rules for taking that position.

We came across this exact same issue in my group during a recent game. We have played over 20 games under the old rules and 8 games under the new rules and clarification is needed on many occasions.

Does the Brothers Bomb act independently or is it directed by Ramirez? Unlike the Hound Dog, there is no indication that it is remote controlled and there is no skill requirement to use it.

I think that it is a legitimate question and the answer is not as obvious a some might think. Unfortunately, there have been a number of issues with the old rules, as well as the new rules, that have to be clarified by gamer interpretation or FFG edict. Since the rules don't specifically tell us how the Brothers Bomb is controlled, we are forced to interpret on our own. Sometimes this means that one must consider what others think is "splitting hairs".

In Don's case, he was asking if anyone else had come across this issue and how it was resolved. If others have not encountered this, then how might they resolve it in the future? I'm sure that it was already "obvious" to Don that Ramirez's "current circle" refers to that circle on which Ramirez is standing. I don't think he will need to debate any other poster.

I prefer to take questions as they are and attempt to think about them in a serious manner. If I disagree or don't think that the poster has thought it through, I will try to respectfully offer my opinion. I understand that it's not always that easy and I have seen many on this board offer their views without reading the rules of the game or even reading the original post.

As someone who usually plays the Union, I don't want any opponent to pick up the Brothers Bomb and use it against me. Unfortunately, the rules apparently allow this to happen. Like Steve-O, I would like to disagree but have no basis in the rules for taking this position.

Respectfully,

Marcus

For me the "you" refer to the player not a character.

And for the disposable equipment issue it's very simple indee. Consider that once Brothers bomb is on the map and moving it's a miniature not a token. Thus you can pick it up if you kill Ramirez before he did use it but nont once it's released on the map.

From my understanding, once the Brother's Bomb is activated, it's running on its own power. This means that it can hurt both enemy and friendly characters when it gets too close. I like to think of it as a wind-up toy that just flies in any direction and then explodes.

<< From my understanding, once the Brother's Bomb is activated, it's running on its own power. This means that it can hurt both enemy and friendly characters when it gets too close. I like to think of it as a wind-up toy that just flies in any direction and then explodes. >>

This was my first point above. It DOES seem that the Brothers Bomb is like a wind up toy that takes off on its own... kind of like an exploding Roomba. However, it is clearly NOT random. The player controlling Ramirez decides where the Bomb goes. That's why it seemed to me that if Ramirez is killed while the Bomb is active, then it should either move randomly or not move at all, probably the former based on die rolls.

Don

Even if it cannot be picked up once on the map this nasty piece of boom can be easily countered / exploited by the opposing player, so Union beware !

Brother's Bomb can be exploited by the Reich player by using the Patmos amulet and forced to come in contact with the rolling bomb. Also a Matriarchy player can "sacrifice" a voivod to make the bomb exploding and get it back either with Zor'ka or Irishka abilities.

Actually, neither of the options suggested by Plageman would work. The description of the Brothers Bomb makes it quite clear that the Bomb ONLY detonates if the Bomb's movement puts it adjacent to a character. It does NOT detonate if a character is moved adjacent to it, by means of the Patmos Amulet or any other method. The player controlling the Bomb will almost always be able to move the Bomb away from a character, if the owning player doesn't want to detonate the Bomb just yet.

Don

Well that's both true and false

You're right the strategy I wrote was for 1st Ed bomb.

"After its initial placement and movement, any time the Brothers Bomb is in a circle adjacent to a character – whether it moves adjacent to a character, or a character moves adjacent to it – the bomb immediately explodes, dealing two Automatic Wounds to all characters in circles adjacent to the one where it exploded."

But in Revised Edition this startegy won't work anymore since it's the player who control the bomb who decide "when" it collides with a character.

Brother Bomb only explodes when IT move adjacent to a character.

from page 71 of the rule book

Hardware • As an action, you may place
this token on your current circle. Then,
at the end of each successive character’s
activation, you must move this token
two circles. The first time this movement
takes the Brothers Bomb adjacent to any
character (even you) it explodes, dealing
four automatic attack successes to every
character in all circles adjacent to it.
The Brothers Bomb does move at the end
of the activation in which it was placed. It
only explodes when its movement moves it
into a circle adjacent to a character, so it
does not explode immediately upon being
placed.

In bold. I guess it is possible for an enemy unit to walk up. Pick it up and use it? eh?

It is disposable and only explodes when it moves.

The Brother's bomb does move on its own, even after the death of Ramirez

Not a rule, but the description does suggest it runs on its own power/mind

This mine is known for
its capacity for
autonomous movement
and its deadly payload,
which contains refined
potassium nitrate. It is
named in homage to the generals George
and Gabriel Rains, the fathers of the
terrestrial mobile torpedo.

In bold, autonomus, meaning independent or self-functioning.

As I said my strategy was erroneous because I still had in mind the original rules for the item.

I totally understand and agree that it was changed in revised edition.