I got a liitle bit confused about the moribund state.

situation 1: Once a charachter is killed and discarded by any action , e.g. threat form the north and a burn effect could cause this situation, the first player chooses wether the charachter is discarded or killed. So the charachter enters the moribund state, let´s say the the first player chooses that the charachter is killed.

Than the charachter is saved from being killed, by whatever effect - the charachter´s strength is still 0, so he will again either be killed or discarded.

So here´s finally the question:

May the first player choose again whether the charachter get´s discarded or killed or is it necessary to save the charachter first from being discarded (- deal with the second moribund state from situation: 1) ?

Old Ben said:

A card cannot be saved from a terminal effect
unless that saving effect also removes it from
the terminal state.

Rogue30 said:

Okay, i forgot about that, let´s change the example. Let´s say Tarle the thriced drowned (with two power on him) bears dragon bite and is participating in a challenge with a dragon. The save from being killed removes the original reason why he entered the moribund state. He now has 3 power on him and is will be still participating in a challenge with a dragon charachter. So he will either be discarded or killed again. If the first player is allowed to choose killed again, he may be saved again with Tarle´s ability removing the moribund state entering it again etc. .... in the end it all breaks down to, Tarle will reach at sometime accumulate enough power to actually win the game in moribund state.

I´m not sure about the terminal effect, i think it get´s removed because Tarle is effectively saved by his own ability from being killed - just too bad that the will be again nuts enough to choose the conflict with a dragon. ;-)

So could this work or were is my misinterpretation of the rules?

Dragon Bite is also terminal effect and you cannot use save.

Old Ben said:

As Rogue30 said, Dragon Bite also creates a terminal effect. The character dies while participating in a challenge with the dragon. So unless the save also removes either removes the character or the dragon from the challenge, you cannot use the save because of the terminal effect rule. Your whole "Tarle gets a whole bunch of power while in moribund" cannot happen because his save is not valid. Honestly, this particular example is more a question of terminal effects than of the moribund state.

But let's look at the principle you are trying to get at without worrying so much about the specifics of the example.

Old Ben said:

Actually, if a character is saved, it never enters the moribund state. A card only enters moribund when an effect that removes it from play resolves successfully. "Moribund" simply means "this card is in the process of leaving play." I'm not sure how you are defining "moribund" or what you are thinking the moribund state is, but you seem to be expressing some confusion that could perhaps be best answered by remembering that a card never becomes moribund until an effect that removes it from play (i.e., kills it, discards it, sends it to hand, sends it to deck or sends it to Shadows) successfully resolves. You save a card to stop it from becoming moribund.

Now, your original concern seemed to be "if a card is being simultaneously killed and discarded, do I have to stop both the kill and the discard in order to keep it, or do I only have to worry about stopping what the First Player says happens to if first?" But keep in mind that the First Player isn't deciding "the kill happens and the discard doesn't;" the First Player is deciding "the kill happens, then the discard." So if you have a way of stopping the kill, you still have to content with the discard. And since the kill and the discard are resolving at the same time, there isn't going to be a way to re-kill the character before dealing with the discard.

Pretty much every example where a card is being killed and discarded at the same time is going to involve terminal effects. So there are precious few ways to save a character from the kill and still leave the discard in-tact. If that does happen, though (for example, a "save character from being killed; until the end of the phase, that character cannot be killed" kind of effect), you will still have to deal with the resolving discard effect.

Note that all of this happens befor e the card ever becomes moribund. Essentially, you have 2 different effects trying to remove the card from play at the same time. You have to deal with both of them - in the order that the First Player determines. If you can't deal with them, the one you couldn't deal with makes the card moribund.

hi!

i have a question that i think has to do with this, here's the situation:

i have a greyjoy character with strength 1 in play, my opponent plays flame-kissed on him (attachment, says that attached character gets -2 str if flame-kissed is the only attachment on it and is killed if str reaches 0).

can i save my character playing risen from the sea (saves a character from being killed and attaches to him giving +1 str)?

Kissing_Crimson said:

Yes.

Rogue30 said:

The reason why is because the event card is attached as part of the save effect. You don't pause between resolving the "save" and "attach" parts of Risen from the Sea in order to check the STR of the character. When the save effect is done resolving, that's when you would check the STR again. And the STR will be 2 (because the addition of the "+1 STR" attachment also "shuts off" Flame-Kissed ).