The Ordo Xenos have always facinated me, maybe it was because they never had a codex or maybe it was all the specialized equipment. Needless to say I'm excited for the Deathwatch book. I just want to start a thread to look at the nature of the Ordo Xenos. I think due to the lack of codex and representation in 40k there is a bit of an over simplification of their mission and purpose. Much of my opinion came from a conversation with one of the GW game designers a couple years back and not necessarily fluff. I figured its atleast a decent introduction, if not something to help GM ideate.

So they're alien hunters, that doesn't sound as "sexy" as fighting daemons or witches, we all fight aliens every time we set up an army of marines against Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necron, or Tyranids. While that is true it is but one aspect of the Ordo Xenos.

The Ordo Xenos have several purposes, they are often part of the imperial mission to new alien worlds. That is because they're responsible for capturing alien samples and weapons for study, identifying their weaknesses so if engaged by Imperial forces on a larger scale the Imperium is prepared. This means unlike when you deal with the Orks or Eldar etc, you are dealing with greater unknowns and uncertainty. For gaming, this means encountering new previously unknown races is always a possibility, it is alot of potential for a GM to craft a campaign.

As an extension of that investigative nature the Ordo Xenos and Deathwatch are assigned with seeking out buried and ancient alien threats... I paraphrase: "if Cthulu were an alien, who'd get called in to kill him?" This results in them either killing the beast or waiting for it to awake from its slumber, when its too horrific to deal with presently. In this instance the Necrons and C'tan, are their biggest failure. Thus the DW are tasked to fight the sleeping horrors of ancient worlds, nightmare of extinct civilizations, and the ghosts of fallen empires. For the GM it is the opportunity to challenge the players, by presenting suspense in the form of a simple question... what would scare a space marine?

Beyond that the Ordo Xenos deal with other types of alien influences and outright pests. From Genestealer cults, to Guese'va, to Diggas, and Groteques all are tainted by the xenos and require special attention to root them out purging them. There are also other types of aliens that might try buying influence or seeding their technology by trading it into the imperium, possibly laying the seeds for a darker purpose. Additionally there are other forms of aliens that sometimes make it onto imperial worlds and quickly pose a threat such as the Viskeon who will regenerate from severed body parts, thus multipling in numbers. This can become as much a political intrigue as the Inquisitor or Deathwatch attempt to discover what alien is behind the changing landscape of power on the planet.

aka_mythos said:

I would just like to point out that according to the Lead Designer, this takes place before the Necrons awake... so there is still a chance for your players to stop this threat before they become too much to handle.

Well, this sounds pretty interesting actually, i never really delve into the aspects of the ordos jobs as i cant ever find players interested in fluff...they just like killing things...

but however what is a Guese'va, Digga, and or a Groteque?

ThenDoctor said:

We could tell you, but then we would have to purge you

Also needs bearing in mind that DW are incredibly rare in Imperial scale. When any given world is attacked by Xenos, the likelyhood of even Imperial Guard coming to help is less than 100%. The probability of Space Marines coming top call is less than 1%. The probablity of actual Deathwatch showing up is miniscular. There just ain't enough of them to go around.

I'll use the Necron example taken from Codex: Necrons and 40k 5th ed: When Necrons take over a mining world and the world is about to fall a company of Ultramarines is sent out to rescue the worlds governor and most important Imperial Adepts. When Inquisitor wants to blow up a Necron Tomb they send a squad of Deathwatch to pick a fight with Necrons, shooting them with tracer-tipped ammunition and waiting for one of them to phase out. Then, following the tracer signal to the Tomblocated hundreds of kilomteres beneath the planets surface the Dethwatch squad teleports into the "broken-necron-reassembly-area" and rig it with a huge bomb.

I think that pretty much illustrates the difference. You don't "waste" Deathwatch by sending them to do something any marine can. You send them to do what no-one else can.

Also, Ordo Xenos is not a military organization. Its part of Inquisition. And Inquisition is never alone. If Inquisitor wants to kill a planet-full of xenos he can send in the Imperial Guard. If he wants to learn enough about a new xenos threat for the Imperial Guard to actually have a fighting chance he has to send in Deathwatch first. Deathwatch is about marines and shooting stuff, but it should be also about facing and investigating the unknowable and before-unseen. Not just about: "Okay, yet another planet is full of 'Nids. You've killed 'Nids before so you iknow their tricks. Go get 'em boys."

Do they have a motto? If not I recommend "Si is crudus, nos can iuguolo is" ["If it bleeds, we can kill it"].

Depends on which school of inquisitor they belong too.

Radical inquisitor? etc.

@SpawnoChaos: Ah sweet... I didn't know they'd established the "when" it fits in the timeline.

@TheDoctor:

Guese'va are humans who during Damocules Gulf Crusade, joined the Tau after undergoing "reeducation" for the greater good.

Digga are humans on Feral worlds inhabited by orks, on many occasions this has resulted in the dominant Orks asserting their "civilization" of the human population. In these instances that the humans are tough enough to "fit in" they end up somewhere above Grots, but below everything else. These humans that most attempt to assimilate are called "Digga."

Grotesques are humans and "normal" eldar, that have been captured and tortured by the dark eldar to the point that they think like the dark eldar and are willing to serve them.

@Polaria The Deathwatch, depending on the situation have been used as first responders, for gathering intelligence on a new alien threat. Unlike other Ordo millitants, they don't form up into an army, preferring the smaller more mobile "kill team". In that regard even when they are present in crusades or campaigns they do so relatively unnoticed. The Deathwatch are rather decentralized with kill teams stationed at different secret bases around the galaxy, often built on the worlds where they watch await some creature who might awaken. This distribution actually allows the respond first quite often, but only to xenoic incursion. Their modus operandi is that of decapitation missions, for example seeking out Ork Waaghs before they strike imperial worlds and killing the WarBoss. When the Deathwatch participate in a crusade or even the defense of a world, that is often their mission as well. In the fluff it was mentioned that two Kill Teams were dispatched during the Third War for Armageddon in an attempt to kill Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka, but failed.

In these missions the Deathwatch admittedly overlap with the jourisdiction of the Officio Assassinorum, but it is often a parallel effort that I imagine could see cooperation. Eversor are maintained by the Mechanicum for the Officio Assassinorum and the Deathwatch work closely with the Mechanicum, so I imagine of the Assassins out their, they might be fighting side by side more often than the others.

@darknite That is especially appropriate if you were fighting a Kroot that consumed some Lictor and absorbed its genetic characteristics.

@crisaron The Deathwatch are more puritanical and that's the more puritanical stance on Xenos. The Radicals are willing to hire alien mercenaries.

When I got to talk with one of the GW game designer he pretty much told me they'd never do a Ordo Xenos codex, so he didn't mind sharing his thoughts on it. One thing was that the Deathwatch was the puritanical hand of the Ordo Xenos, while the Radicals would tend to utilize Rogue Traders who while partially militant are alot more willing to engage more peaceably with non-threatening Xenos, and that connection with the Rogue Trader would grant Ordo Xenos inquisitors access to Alien Mercenaries. So people who want to play a radical Ordo Xenos team would do well with the new Rogue Trader expansion combined with Dark Heresy.

A kill team is rarely aware of the Inquisitor himself. They will answer to a call forwarded to them by the Deathwatch.

Again yes Dark Templar and Dark Angels would never ally with Xenos, probably Ultramarines too but some other chapters are more "open" to ideas.

There is always the navigator truth, some Space Wolf are aware but i bet you most Dark Angels or Black Templar are not.

Also keep in mind that its the Deathwatch's mission to acquire alien technology and bring it back for learning purposes... most Puritanical followers of the Inquisition have a "burn it" mentality and not a "study it" mentality.

There is equal room for Gray.

I just mean that the Ordo Xenos Inquisitors with access to the Deathwatch the majority of the time are puritanical. It is much like how only puritanical Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus have access to Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle respectively. The idea that was conveyed to me was that Rogue Traders serve as alternative to the Deathwatch for the more radical elements of the Ordo Xenos.

This does not mean the Deathwatch will be puritanical, just that inquisitorial missions are. The Deathwatch, though part of the Ordo Xenos, work closely with the Adeptus Mechanicus and since the Emperor has dictated the mission to study the xenos to them it would not be perceived as heretical. The Deathwatch carry a more pragmatic understanding of alien technology; "know thy enemy."

The way to think of it is, puritanical Inquisitors are not trying to keep alien technology from the Imperium, they are trying to keep it away from the average person, since it can be used by alien forces to influence planetary governments or populations. Its no different than how governments today ban the importing of firearms, this just has a more religious slant. The puritanical Inquisitor himself would never use it nor would he allow anyone in his retinue to be alien or use alien technology. The mechanicum is suppose to study it to find its flaws so the Imperium can exploit its weakness... less puritan techpriest may try applying that knowledge to a heretical end.

So where a Deathwatch teams mission originates will dictate what they are intended to do, while their own varying degrees of puritanical or radical beliefs will shape their opinions and adherance to that mission.

You have to remember that while an Inquisitor trusts no one, Deathwatch are the chosen of the Emperor, those who are perceived as incorruptible to the Xenos influences and temptations. As much as the Ordo Malleus believes the Grey Knights can stand unshaken before the lure of the warp, so are Deathwatch blessed to resist aliens.

aka_mythos said:

An Inquisitor wouldn't need to be a Puritan to requisition a kill-team. As long as he or she isn't obviously heretical or consorting with Xenos there wouldn't be any problem.

By the way there are quite a few different types of Puritan Inquisitors, and some most certainly would have the intention of destroying any and all Xenos technology rather than using or studying it. Monodominants come to mind.

Atheosis said:

You need to look at the chamber militants of the other Ordos of the inquisition; the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle were each established by their respective puritanical Ordos of Inquisitors and radicals don't have access to them. The same is the case with Deathwatch. Requisitioning a Kill Team isn't as easy as calling a hot-line.The puritanical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor were responsible for founding the Deathwatch and simply wouldn't share them with the radicals, just as a radical Ordo Malleus inquisitor wouldn't share a dispatched unit of Grey Knights. These are guarded and scarce resources that these organizations can't open to unnecessary risk; any mission a Radical would commit to is undue risk in the eyes of a Puritan and if it isn't undue risk then the Puritan would commit them himself to assert his control of the situation.

I understand there are varying degrees of puritanical belief. If you read what I was saying in what you quoted, what I said is that what is expected of the Deathwatch is dictated by how puritanical the the person who has given the Kill Teams mission is. In much the same ways the Sisters of Battle are an arm of both the Ordo Hereticus and the Ecclesiarchy so is the Deathwatch an arm of both the Ordo Xenos and Adeptus Mechanicus. The Inquisition doesn't want to study alien technology so their mission will be more puritanical than when the Kill Team is given a mission by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Those are the only extremes of puritanical missions the Deathwatch sees.

aka_mythos said:

It depends on the Inquisitor. Some such as the Xeno Hybris minor faction in the Calixis Sector are focused on exploiting Xenos technology and ideas. There are surely others.

Also, why would Deathwatch be taking orders from the Mechanicus? if a radical Inquisitor allied to the Xenotech-studying factions of the Mechanicus ordered it, sure

In all the fluff I read there was never a ruling body to any Ordos but a council of Inquisitor and there are many factions and personal goals within the Ordos members.

To restrict the deathwatch to puristic inquisitor is saying that radical inquisitors are bad liars that have opened agendas.

The nature of the threat is what will make the deathwatch answer and not the originator of the request. Even if it where a radical inquisitor that request helps to stop a hive fleet, he will get it especially if there is a forgeworld in the path of the hive fleet.

Decessor said:

Most Tech-Marines are loyal to Mechanicus as much as to their chapters and may take orders from the Machinus Cult or undertake Eploration of Xeno tech for the Mechanicus.

@Decessor: I know. There are Inquisitors who want to study alien tech, but those are radicals and not the puritanical inquisitors that have access to the Ordo Xeno's chamber militant.

In the fluff it is established that the Deathwatch serves the Adeptus Mechanicus on higher risk missions in exchange for the supply of specialized equipment, particularly the bolter shells. Chapters supply marines to Deathwatch also for those resources. Its a tithing of sorts.

@Crisarion: GW has already done this with the other two Chamber Militants and it was GW's intent to continue in that way, so its nothing new. Radicals are simply not trusted as much. Radicals play with alien technology may have become tainted with heretical tendencies which might lead them to abuse or waste the Deathwatch on an unworthy mission.

I said the originator would dictate how puritanical their mission order would be, not how or if they'd follow it. The Deathwatch are a scarce and guarded secret. I doubt a Radical Inquisitor is even trusted enough by the Puritanical ones to have been told where a Deathwatch fortress is located, let alone how to contact it. You also assume the Deathwatch would want to help. While not puritanical to a single ideology of xenophobia each are heavily ideologically driven and most marine chapters do have an attitude of destroying all xenos and not studying it. Some might.

It is the mission of the Adeptus Mechanicus to study alien technology, not the Inquisition, so while the Deathwatch might serve a Techpriest's mission, they wouldn't be as inclined to follow a radical Inquisitor with the same mission. In their minds, their "god-emperor" ordered one and not the other. One has an explicit divine mandate, which the Deathwatch would support, the other has one that is "interpreted" by an individual as a necessary course of action in rooting out other alien threats.

I'm not saying blanktetly a Radical Inquisitor never have access to a Kill Team, just not commonly, very very rarely. The two would come into conflict once the Inquisitor crossed a "moral" line in the eyes of some equally extremely ideological 8ft tall super men. Its an idea for a story or adventure so I wouldn't rule it out, but it isn't normal.

What is "the navigator truth"?

Mr Adventurer said:

They are mutants and will all enventually shed their human appearance to a degree or even completely (think about the navigators mutant in the movie Dunes, they have the same faith).

This is a very tightly garded truth, while few know that navigators will have mutation very few know the extend of the mutations. Should a Dark Angel or even a Black Templar learn of this he could take it in is hand to clean up the navigator not knowing this to be a wider truth. It is assumed that most Dark Angel and Black Templar navigators will belong to the family showing the least mutations.

This is a plot hook if you want.

Same kind of plot hook is a Wulfen(a degenerated Space Wolf who as succumbed to the curse of the wolf) would give your team a big mental and physical challenge. If you have a Dark Angel Assault marine and a Rune Priest, there would be an escalation of hostility within the kill team most probably just to determine the faith of the Wulfen.

This is simply to explain that nothing is black and white within the Imperium. All factions have something to hide, something that would make someone else unhappy.

While a Deathwatch group will not help an openly radical Inquisitor nothing says they haven't been manipulated into thinking one Inquisitor is radical while another is the real radical, etc. Since the Deathwatch are veteran, it coudl be argued that they would have a more pragmactical mind. They know the universe is multiple shade of grey and they can only do so much or can only trust so much. A Deathwatch member can be seen as a possible candidate for the Chapter leadership, it is a Chapter's master task to be able to foresee the enemy's of the Imperium and of is chapter, a political mind is required as well as the spirit of the chapter in the space marine hence it could be understandable to have each chapter give a moto to a departing marine:

- Dark Angel : Watch and listen, Watch for them and destroy them, Listen for information and destroy it. The chapter will be redeemed.

- Space Wolf : Your actions define who you are, the chapter is defined by your actions. Go brother show them the strenght and the wisdom of the wolf.

Fortunately for the Deathwatch their mandate isn't to slay the mutant... otherwise a number of chapters that are a bit defective would have conflicts.

The idea that the Deathwatch would get manipulated would make for a long running campaign, where the players need to realize they're being manipulated in an Inquisitorial power struggle.

The "Navigator Truth" is irrelivant since everyone who matters knows what Navigators are and also is aware that the Imperium cannot function without them. Hence one of them is a High Lord of Terra. The Navis Nobilite, like the Spacing Guild in Dune, have the Imperium by the short hairs, so to speak. Any grunt space marine who took it upon himself to off a Navigatior would have a very short lifespan thanks to the Captain of the ship he's on turning the grunt's intestines into a new belt. The Chapter that birthed such a fool marine would then have to compensate the ships Captain, or the Imperium, and the Navigators house for such an act stupidity.

Navigators are a type of Abhuman and Abhumans aren't necessarily what the Imperium labels mutants. I've always wondered what the threshold criteria the Imperium used for determining if a population are "legal" Abhumans or "heretical" abomination? Is it a matter of mutations stability? Is it a matter of genetic % difference from standard "human"? Or is it something more superficial... like 2-4 ears, mouth like x, nose like X, ect... exceed it and you're a "mutant."

I doubt GW's ever addressed this, but I think it makes for an interesting topic of discussion. Chime in.

Anyone thought of AvP tie in?

Well speaking of that... this was my hook for the campaign I plan on running...

I thought about a campaign where the marines are sent to investigate what has happened in "Bio-lab 13." When they get there the techpriests and administrators of the facility are dead and a number of Genestealers being studied have been allowed to escape. While investigating they discover they were let loose by a trio of Kroot, with loads of Tau tech, who want the challenge to hunt the ultimate game.

The rest of my campaign would go generally like this: The plot threads I was going to put in were to lead the Marines from there to a prominant family in a hive world that has been supplied Tau suits ala Spyrer gang, in exchange for logistical information on a number of key imperial installations. The family is infact been infiltrated by Genestealer cultist, hence their desire to eliminate the evidence of their heresy being stored and research at the Bio-lab. This set the marines on a series of missions both to the hive world having to deal with threats of genestealer cultists and kroot mercenaries within this hive world. Eventually this would draw them to participate in an Inquisitors "Ambasadorial" mission to Tau space, which is in fact to simply disguise their operations in eliminating the elements of the Tau regime that are attempting to gain influence in the Imperium and trying to invoke revolts on those worlds. All with the context of a Tau-Ork war, that leaves them feeling they need to keep the Imperium destabalized on their front, in fear the Imperium may take the opportunity to attack.

Once that was done, my plan was to hop back to the foreshadowing of the genestealer cults, by weaving together a plot where the Necrons on the original hiveworld have awaken and activated a psionic beacon to draw a hivefleet to them, the necron/c'tan wish to devour the inherent psionic energy of the norn-queen with in that fleet, in hopes of fully awakening. Leading to that there would be a one off adventure or two implying the presence of necron deep beneath the hiveworlds surface. This has the potential to put the team in direct conflict between the Inquisitor they've worked for and a techpriest magos, who they believe to fully represent the Mechanicum.