Hello,

I just got the Core Pack and we played our first 8 Warhammer Invasion games last weekend (and my Destruction forces were both smashed by the Dwarves...).

We encountered some card questions and need some clarifications:

1) Fledgling Chaos Spawn ("Forced: After this unit is destroyed, deal 1 damage to one target one in any player's battlefield") and Bloodthirster ("Forced: After your turn begins, each player must sacrifice a unit in this corresponding zone").

If I choose Fledgling Chaos Spawn to be sacrificed because of Bloodthirster's forced effect, can I trigger Chaos Spawn's effect afterwards, or is sacrificing a unit not the same as destroying a unit?

2) Shrine to Taal ("After your turn begins, choose a target unit in this zone. That unit gains 1 P for each of your developments in this zone until the end of the turn").

How many icons does the unit get, the number of developments in the zone at the moment, the effect is triggered (ie at the beginning of the turn) or the number of developments in the zone in the moment the number of icons is used (so that a player could play another development in his Capital phase and then use the icons in the battlefield phase, for example). When do I actually count the number of developments?

3) If a unit is corrupted, can I still use their actions (provided they don't require corruption of the unit, of course) and do forced actions still resolve?

Thank you!

Dunwich Horror said:

Sacrifice is not destroy and vice versa (FAQ).

Dunwich Horror said:

1P for each development when it is triggered (at the beginning of the turn).

Dunwich Horror said:

Yes. Not sure how you'd resolve a Forced that required you to corrupt the unit (are there even any of those?) if the unit was already corrupted.

Dam said:

There is Festering Nurglings, which could be forced to corrupt themselves if they came into play as the only unit in that zone (for either player). If there was a Warpstone Excavation in that zone, they would already be corrupt, so their would be no valid targets for their Forced ability and you would just ignore it.

Similarly, Warpstone Meteor forces corruption of a unit, but its clear that if you can't, you just have to deal a damage to your capital.

Not quite the scenario I had in mind. What I was thinking was a unit that read:

"Forced: Corrupt this unit, then..." and how it would interact if A) the Forced trigger was met and B) unit was already corrupted. I put the "then" in there so that first the corruption would have to take place in order for the rest of the ability to work.

Dam said:

What is the Forced trigger in your example? With your wording that Forced effect could be played at any time. I don't believe there are any "Forced" cards that can be activated at any time without some event triggering them. I also don't think there are any that require you to pay a "cost" (in your example corrupting a unit) in order to get the rest of the effect, so I suspect there will never be a case like the one you are proposing.

The Destroy vs. Sacrifice mechanics works similar to Call of Cthulhu, then, okay.

Another question: We had some debates regarding The Greatswords ("Forced: After a unit enters this zone, TG gains 1 P until the end of the turn").

At first, we played that each time a unit was played into the same zone as The Greatswords, The Greatswords gained one additional attack symbol. So when the owner added two more cards this turn, the Greatswords got 2 more attack icons.

Then, we discovered the "clarification" in the FAQ and were confused: "The GS forced ability does go off when they enter play". At first, we understood this as "this ability is only triggered that turn the Greatswords enter play - not in later turns". By browsing the forums, I came to the conclusing that the sentence could also mean "If Greatswords enter play, count them as well for the duration of the turn, because they just fulfilled their own forced condition: so that turn you would get 1 additional icon for Greatswords and 1 icon each for any other unit played into the zone".

Since the FAQ clarification wasn't very elaborate, could someone please clarify how to play Greatswords?

Any time they enter a zone, or another unit enters a zone they are in, either by being played from hand or being moved in by other effects, they gain a P until end of turn.

Its elaborated here, under "The Greatswords": deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php

Great link, thank you!

I was right then; now I understand the cryptic sentence in the FAW

One final question, though: Does Greatswords get +1 each time a unit enters their zone (ie if I play 2 units, do they get +2) or do they get +1 when one (or more) units are played into their zone this turn?

Entropy42 said:

Yeah, should've written the full example I had in mind. So let's take the Bloodthirster and adjust his ability's wording:

"Forced: At the beginning of your turn, corrupt this unit, then each player must sacrifice a unit in this corresponding zone."

Greatswords get +1P each time a unit enters the zone. Hence the Empire Jumping Jacks deck, where you collect a ton of resources then use the Pistoliers (Action: Spend 1 resource to move this unit from its current zone to another of your zones.) to bounce in and out for +1P until you run out of resources.

Dunwich Horror said:

Each time. Its a trigger. Every time that trigger is met, that effect occurs.

Dam said:

Yeah, should've written the full example I had in mind. So let's take the Bloodthirster and adjust his ability's wording:

"Forced: At the beginning of your turn, corrupt this unit, then each player must sacrifice a unit in this corresponding zone."

I don't think there is a card with a "cost" as part of the Forced effect, and I don't think they will make one. But if they made this card, I would assume you only get the "each player sacrifices" effect if you were able to successfully corrupt the Fake Bloodthirster. I can't find the ruling, but I'm pretty sure I've read that "then" means you only get to do what follows if you successfully resolved whatever precedes it.

Yeah, that was my point. "Then" requires that the preceding cost/effect resolved successfully, so the sacrifice in this case wouldn't kick in. But then, if the BT was already corrupted and the latter effect couldn't resolve, would that be the Forced being cancelled because the cost couldn't be paid (and as per the rules, Forceds can't be cancelled)? Even if not cancelled per se, at least the Forced wouldn't have been resolved.

Dam said:

Yeah, I guess that would be confusing then. I just always understood "forceds can't be canceled" to mean they can't be countered (since you can't respond to them). I wouldn't expect them to occur regardless of whether or not they had a valid target and costs could be payed. Regardless, there are no cards yet that have this sort of issue with "Forced" effects. Lets just hope they don't make one! :-)