Hey there, this thread is about those new gates, and what a pain in the butt they can be sometimes. For those that have a story of how those gates screwed you over, feel free to share them here.

I just played a game using only the Lurker expansion Vs. Yig and the Lurker herald. And of course, the new gate tokens were used. Well the Terrible Experiment rumor came up, and 3 of the initial 5 monsters were cultists. That's fine, we thought, we would just kill the other monsters as they appeared, so we don't add doom tokens to Yig unnecessarily.

So the game continues and some tougher monsters start appearing on the cards, and with investigators trying to seal gates, and most of the weapons being the either the powerful once-per-turn type (like fetch stick and flame thrower), or being the weak type (like derringer and axe), we were having trouble. Well our monster fighter Agnes Baker was coming out of a gate soon and would be able to take care of a good amount until.... that moving Dreamlands gate moved right onto the Miskatonic Streets. Well now we can't fight the monsters because we'll get sucked into the gate since the monsters are fought during Arkham Encounters. So we had Hank Samson and Silas Marsh try to clean up what they could in the streets before the terrible experiment monsters were released to keep Yig from awakening early. And a few monsters were cleared, at the expense of an injury each, with Hank getting a broken hand.

Wilson Richards and Agnes both got out of their gate, and Wilson failed to close Yuggoth (which we closed already, but it came back thanks to now being endless) and the next mythos card created a monster surge where Yuggoth was. The Terrible Experiment was failed and monsters poured, and we had way too many monsters so Yig woke up. Silas and Agnes were both devoured immediately thanks to being cursed a couple turns earlier, and Wilson got about 3 hits in before he was devoured. Hank with his one unbroken fist pounded on Yig for another 5 hits before he too succumbed to the lizard.

Yig now has new-found respect around here, and that moving and endless gate will be on the revenge list.

DoomTurtle said:

Well, why assume that getting sucked into the gate takes precedence to dealing with mythos cards since they both take place in the same phase?

Avi_dreader said:

I'd play this situation the same way DoomTurtle played, simply because dealing with monsters on the Terrible experiment card and then entering the gate sounds like having two different enocunters in the same AE Phase, without having a card instructing me to do so.

Julia said:

Agreed. "Gate replaces the location", so until it moves away or is closed there isn't a "Miskatonic Streets" to have TE encounters in.

This happened to us earlier: fortunately it wandered off again before it became a problem.

cim said:

Streets aren't locations :') (yes, I'm going to get jargony on this just because I think it's highly problematic to not allow players to deal with rumors).

::Shrug:: truth be told, I can see this being ruled either way (since it's not like you can't just send in a clueless investigator to close the gate in three turns.

Avi_dreader said:

While the practical answer is "you deserve what you get for doing that, and it's one of those rumours that's rarely worth stopping anyway", what about using the Naacal Key on Ma's and then having the Southside Strangler rumour turn up?

Would you allow someone to complete the street portions of Dunwich Tasks/Missions if there was a moving gate on that place? (Assume explored token, or returning from LiTaS, so that they can be there in the Upkeep phase). While I probably wouldn't have thought about it and just said yes had it come up in-game, I think actually no, you need to clear the gate - or have it run away - just as you would with a Location.

Avi_dreader said:

Oh, don't give me that, Mr. Learn-To-Swim-In-Shark-Infested-Waters. We lost the chance to use arguments like that the moment we allowed Gates to stroll around town. If an Investigator is on a Gate at the beginning of the Arkham Encounter Phase, they don't get the time to "have a snack" before bouncing offworld. If you're trying to be a clever Rules Defense Attorney, pointing out FFG's holes, that's fine, but you can't SERIOUSLY BELIEVE that this can go "either way."

Cim's right: "You deserve what you get for doing that." Even if you didn't, you poor saps.

Avi_dreader said:

It may be a foggy point whether or not streets are technically locations, but I think it's pretty clear the same system should apply when a gate is present. I have little doubt FFG will clear that up in a FAQ update sometime soon.

In the mean time, I'm falling back on my old standby rule of thumb: If something is unclear, always rule against the investigators. No TE for you. =P

jgt7771 said:

Did we ever get a ruling about what happens when a gate moves into a vortex? Kevin Wilson said (in Colt's collected answers) that a rift that moves into a vortex just stops and freezes there. This would cause an awkward situation for a gate since investigators can't enter vortices under any circumstances to close it unless we can apply the "gate replaces a location" rule which seems appropriate to me because gates couldn't move when the original FAQ was written that defines this rule.

I think I'll play it that way until I hear differently and allow investigators to jump into such a gated vortex to close it.

An interesting thing to consider is what happens once the gate is closed:

Any monsters (still alive) that had wandered in there and gotten stuck would immediately advance the terror and DH tracks

The investigator is in BIG trouble because he or she ain't supposed to be there, ever. Options:

• Spit out into the streets - like what happens when a location is closed (if so would all living monsters be spit out too?)
• Lost in TIme and Space - like what happens when no exit from an other world to Arkham exists
• Devoured - the fitting punishment for letting something really bad like this happen

Assuming we can call a vortex a "location" for this purpose, I'd think Arkham's Razor says take the last option.

My second question is probably easy. I thought it was listed somewhere but I can't find it. Can an investigator walk past a gate in the streets or does movement progress always stop when an investigator enters a gate area?

I'm pretty sure you could walk through the street with the gate, If I recall correctly you can run into a location with a gate, off items with another investigator already there and move away to not get sucked in.

I make the vortex "eat" it like it was a monster. Trigger the vortex (+1 terror and some token), then close the gate and return it to the pile. Since it's closed, all matching dimensional monsters are removed. This, of course, can result in the unfortunate soul within getting Lost in Time and Space.

Tibs said:

I see your point, but rifts are "mobile tears in the fabric of the universe, somewhat similar to gates..." and they don't get eaten. Hopefully we'll get some answers on this and a lot of other things sometime soon.

Yeah, but investigators don't have to come out of rifts like they do gates. Having the gate sit inside the vortex creates all sorts of issues, and having it stop short of the vortex seems to just avoid the problem.

Yes, an official answer would be swell.

I think you'd be able to fight against the experiment even with a gate sitting on MU. Since you fight the rumor and are drawn through gates during the arkham encounters, it's investigators choice what happens first.

There's no reason to treat the Experiment any different than you would any other rumor. So unless you're willing to argue that you cant discard gate trophies to Distrubing the Dead, or spells to the Great Ritual, or clues to the Stars are Right (if there is a relavant gate on that street) then you can't say there is no fighting in MISC U.

As far as moving gates/rifts. If a gate/rift would move into someplace that isnt a location or street, it doesn't move. I never understood why people aren't happy with that answer.

awp832 said:

Because what is the precedence? Moving gates are supposed to follow the arrows, and sometimes arrows enter vortexes. Rifts can do it, monsters do it (obviously), so what's different about gates? That said, it looks like at this point that every answer is as good as every other.

Tibs said:

What's different is that Investigators can enter and exit them, unlike Rifts, which are essentially just another wandering chit, like a monster with an automatic Evade (Elusive?). The moment you let a Gate enter a Vortex, there are suddenly a DOZEN other questions: Can I get in it? Can I get out of it? If I get an Encounter that lets me close it, can I close it and where do I go after that? Can a Nightgaunt throw me in it?

RRRRRR! If you just STOP it from entering a Vortex...there are no longer any questions! I really think that a Gate just outside a Vortex is a bigger threat than one stuck in a Vortex acting like an inferior Rift. What if it starts in Devil Reef or Y'ha-nthlei? If a Gate can LEAVE Devil Reef in a way that prevents an Investigator from doing anything about it, then there goes the whole "how do I get out there, and how do I get back" fun of Falcon Point!

So the hell with "precedent". This way is "easier" but not any less "difficult", and it will take up a sentence in the FAQ rather than a whole flippin' PAGE.

Arkham's Razor is supposed to be for the Investigators...not the PLAYERS.

Well you're kind of ignoring the fact that the rest of Tibs solution was to have the gate be sucked into the vortex not just sit there, which is as good as it never entering in the first place as far as bringing up questions about what the hell to do. And yes it makes perfect sense that a rip in space/time could be sucked into a rip in space/time we are talking about fractal reality here.

Veet said:

Except that gives you a break on the Gate Limit. During midgame, I tend to have more problems keeping under the Gate Limit than keeping down the Doom Track. A Gate that disappears for one doom token happens once; a Gate that sticks around threatens the Gate Limit constantly. And if there are monster surges, a Gate that won't leave will still be allowed to spit monsters into the Vortex.

One way stabs the Investigators once. The other holds them over a fire until they solve the problem themselves. I personally don't want to miss out on that possibility just because a great many people are getting all hot and bothered because of the novelty of a Gate inside a Vortex. Didn't we all get enough of that tripe with the Rifts?

(And by the way...no, I don't put my Rifts in a Vortex. If I'm ever playing Kingsport with Dunwich or Innsmouth, I draw Mythos cards until I get an Arkham location.)

You are correct there jgt7771, I was simply pointing out that neither solution brings up more questions on how things behave, both are simple. Personally i've always gone with your solution, in theory because it's actually never come up in one of my games.

jgt7771 said:

I don't know that many people are "hot and bothered" about this especially since a gated vortex would be a rare occurrence. There are many small gray areas like this in AH that have been left unresolved by FFG to date and I think we players get to have some fun trying to resolve them. At least I think it's fun.

I got an idea! What if the Gate ate the Vortex! Gate moves round, spits the vortex out at some point, they go separate ways or the Vortex gets re-eaten. That way as long as an investigator doesn't occupy the same other world location as said rift, the investigators could seal the gate and the rift along with it.

Also, i'm pretty new to the game, so i've got no clue as to how rifts work. But i figured an idea could always help.

Well a rift and a vortex are two different things. A vortex is a stationary spot on two of the expansion boards that are dead ends and that investigators cannot enter. A rift is a mobile token that roams around the board spitting out monsters whenever it moves, rifts do not interact with investigators. So since a vortex is a dead end then the gate will never leave it if it enters and you come up with mechanical questions like, can the investigators enter the gate if it's on a spot they normally cannot enter.