ItsUncertainWho said:

All I know is I really, really want "Beakie" (Corvus) pattern armor.

And hope it isn't a big enough penalty to use that you're almost stuck using something else. Especially since older tech in 40k doesn't always mean worse, and sometimes means better!

Err, not to be a fly in the ointment, but isn't "Corvus" pattern actually Mark 5 and not Mark 6 ("Beaky" armour)?

Kage

Mark 1: Thunder Armor

Mark 2: Crusade Armor

Mark 3: Iron Armor

Mark 4: Maximus

Mark 5: Heresy

Mark 6: Corvus

Mark 7: Aquila/Eagle

Mark 8: Errant

My bad. I misread the old article on power armour due to extreme tiredness and, well, being bored. Grumpus at the moment, etc. I remain hopeful that I shall be inspired by Deathwatch when it comes out. <crosses fingers>

Kage

SpawnoChaos said:

By the 40 lore I assume you mean the Space Marines as portrayed by Black Library books?

Because if you look at all other established lore, especially the one GW themselves wrote... Well, the things are a bit different. I know some people love BL novels and hold them as the highest authority on all fluff, but novels came after the table top and codexes and all the other background stuff published in WD and such.

Now if we talk about FFG fluff it hardly compares. Yes, FFG wrote extremely good stuff on Calixis sector, Inquisition and the life in Imperium as whole. Probably the best stuff there is. However, as it comes to Space Marines they took a hard left turn from the established fluff, pushed the pedal and never looked back. I haven't read more of Deathwatch than the Final Sanction and Oblivions End yet and several things come to mind:

Marine Weapons: As the established fluff goes bolters are bolters and there isn't that much difference between them. Bolter had always been a damnably heavy weapon and it was never really intended for anyone else except Astartes and Sororitas to use. In FFG fluff we suddenly run into "normal bolters" (the 1D10+5 and 2D10 for heavy kind) and "astartes bolters" (the 2D10+5 and 2D10+10 for heavy). Now really? If you compare this to GW fluff where bolter is a bolter its not just scaling. You can say that in D6 scale of armor saves AP7 and AP8 are kinda equal and they are close enough, but how come Astartes bolter (S4/AP5) suddenly does 33% more damage on average than Imperial Guard support weapon heavy bolter (S5/AP4)?

Marine Careers: Now ALL established fluff before has said that Marines first join Scouts, graduate from there to Devastators and after Devastator to Assault Marines. Only after he has mastered the roles on Scout, Devastator and Assault marine he can combine all those skills and become Tactical Marine. No matter what GW book you take Tactical Marine is supposed to be a little bit more experienced and little bit better than his "younger brothers" the Scouts, Devastators and Assault Marines. FFG has thrown the old career path of marines out of window and changed the old concept of "masters-of-warfare" into "specialists-of-one-type-of-warfare" more reminiscent of Aspect Warriors.

Now what I have seen from Deathwatch so far I am sure it will be a great game and I'm sure I'll enjoy running it as much as my players will enjoy shooting stuff with new bolters. However, I won't pretend that the Marines as portrayed now are accurate fluffwise to any large degree. Because they just ain't.

Polaria said:

Actually, FFG are essentially just continuing what Black Industries started in this regard - they were the first ones to define a difference between 'mortal' bolters and Astartes bolters. It's not simply just something that FFG pulled out of the air, but rather something that a subsidiary group of GW decided upon, and both under BI and FFG, GW have granted their approval. It's a change from established background... but it's one that GW have permitted.

In fact, back during an earlier draft of Dark Heresy, all bolters had stats like that. It was changed back in the draft after that, but the Astartes bolt weapons (which turned up briefly in Purge the Unclean and The Inquisitor's Handbook) retained higher damage values.

Polaria said:

Have they?

Copied from the Devastator specialisation preview, this is the first paragraph after the heading:

"Devastator Marines are those Battle-Brothers tasked with manning the very heaviest and most powerful of portable weapons. In his parent Chapter, the Devastator Marine might recently have ascended from the 10th Scout Company, and therefore be undertaking a crucial stage in the process of mastering all of the arts of war. In the Deathwatch, however, it is more likely that the Devastator Marine has already served in his parent Chapter as a Devastator, Assault, and Tactical Marine, and is returning to the role he most excels in—the application of overwhelming firepower"

One thing to note is that a starting Deathwatch character is seldom going to be a 'new' marine, to the point where if you built a single, integrated "Space Marine" career path, most of them would already be past the "Devastator" and "Assault Marine" sections.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Okay, I can live with this explanation. Although I have to say that if the starting level DW marine is supposed to be the "more experienced" (veteran?) marine, then the FFG "average chapter marine" isn't going to be much tougher than average Rank 3 Acolyte is.

What I really don't like is BL novel fluff which invariably leads to messing up things more and more as Marines go. We are now at the point where we have three kinds of "canon" marines:

GW (tabletop canon): Best of the best with best equipment Imperium has.

FFG (RPG canon): Best of the best with better equipment than anyone (even Inquisition or Rogue Traders) have.

BL (novel canon): nigh-immortal, indestructible demigods with magic relics.

leave the power armour AP the same for DW AP 8 (9 for Best Quality Cause theyre Marines) plus 3 or 4 for the Black Carapace they all wear and a toughness bonus of 8ish = AP11 or 12 with toughness for a total of 19 or 20....... sounds like a marine to me you know big guys 2 hearts, 3 lungs, solid wall for a rib cage, spit acid ........ marines are hard out of armour so leave the power armour as is in my humble opinion theyre still going to be hard than almost all DH and RT characters.

lord inquisitor revan darksoul said:

You do realize that in current rules Astartes-pattern bolters wouldn't properly penetrate that anymore? Average damage of Astartes-pattern is 16 points with 5 pen.... Even now with AP8/TB8 Marines will be hellishly hard to kill. Unless you start giving Righteous Fury rule to everyone even with current 16 total a marine:

• Is immune to all laser weapons (including overcharge packs)
• Is immune to all projectile weapons (including armor piercing bullets)
• Is immune to all close-combat weapons, except power swords, wielded with less than 50 STR (including mono and chain)
• Can be hurt with single-shot laser hot shot for a maximum of 1 or 2 points (lol)
• Can be hurt with "normal" bolters for a maximum of 4 points
• Can be hurt wih plasmaguns for a maximum of 8 points
• Can take meltagun hit in the head and keep walking, taking average of 7 points from it (wtf?)

I mean, a Deathwatch marine can already be hit three times in the head with meltagun and get a away with few round of stunned. With a total AP+TB of 20 or so they would become immune to power weapons and plasma and even meltaguns would start having trouble actually hurting them. Lets not go overboard. If Chaos Space marine bolters stop penetrating loyalist power armor and other way around then nothing really makes much sense anymore. Even Black Library agrees with marine being killable by another marines bolter and, unless I am totally mistaken, meltagun hit to the head shouldn't be something you just shrug off.

i agree but that was going just by the numbers and is probably the reason FFG will keep power armour as it is otherwise marine will become just about unkillable

@Polaria

Right now, the best course of action against a marine would probably be a high-damage sniper weapon. 3D10+x is a lot less easy to shrug off.

although saying that the AP 20ish marine is just plain wrong doesnt work so well if you consider a RT character with toughness 50, best subdermal armour (AP3) and best power armour (AP 9) still give a basic human AP 17 in total and thats well within the reach of most rouge traders with a half descent profit factor

Artificer armour has a 2+ save like techmarine's and honour guard (If this has been said I have only read the first page.)

I think that we need to take a step back and evaluate what power armour is once again.

As we can all agree, Storm Trooper Carapace armour is the pinacle of non-powered Imperial armour and in game terms, that's AP 6. We can also agree that Astartes pattern power armour is the pinacle of mass production powered armour, whether it be through advanced technologies, materials, production methods or ancient techno-arcane principals. The issue is "other" power armour.

Now personally i'd be tempted to say that all non-Astartes power armour is light power armour, and those that have AP 8 are in fact Best craftsmanship suits. However that doesn't really solve the issue, so lets think outside the box.

As has been said, tabletop 40k doesn't have the same depth or detail that a 40k RPG will have, and many of the army books are ancient comparitively. Anyone who sticks their head in the sand and says "but i want to use 2nd ed Codex Space marines as my reference material" is as stubborn and blind as a scientist using a 50 year-old chemistry text book because they prefer the version of the periodic table of elements in there, despite it being outdated and incompatible with the updated lore.

Astartes power armour is Ap8. So called 'civilian' power armour is also Ap8. But i don't see civilian pattern armour containing the advanced life support ,sensors, muscle enhancers, commlinks, advanced power supply etc. Also not ALL marines will have the Astartes pattern power armour listed so far, as it is the base-line for their armours. Artificer armour, terminator armour and upgrades like Iron Halo's, Rosarius etc will add yet another degree of protection to what is already a veritable walking tank of a man.

Now Sororitas armour - why not just say it's Best Crafstmanship Light Power armour - the same AP protection as full power armour, but much more lightweight, as befits the smaller, weaker figures of Adepta Sororitas. It's still amazingly resilient, has the added bonus of being very lightweight and also maintains a smaller profile allowing for more covert operations and to avoid more hostile fire. Astartes and Sororitas may have the same protection in tabletop terms, but Astartes are already a size category bigger before the armour, and then bulked up once again. A Sororitas will likely only stand a head taller than an average man, but an Astartes will stand several feet taller. From this it is obvious that Astartes armour is nowhere near as bulky as everyone assumes, but is in stead relatively form fitting - the form just happens to be of Herculean proportions.

Light power armour has many benefits over full power armour, not least of which being it is cheaper and lighter (weight wise) and is what my characters have always aimed for in DH and RT games. In DW, well you get given all of your gear by default, and can unlock even better options as you go. Your characters are stupidly tough, even without the armour, and even completely naked and unarmed can demolish an armed adversary in hand to hand combat.

I really don't see why people are getting so worked up about all of this armour malarky, as they all seem balanced and viable so far...

Kasatka said:

Because they don't want balanced and viable. They want unstoppable marines in indestructable armor that can just run around stomping everything.

When I read the 40k novels, I see time and time again marine armor that is penetrated by lasguns, solid projecticle, grenades, etc. It is the toughness of the marine that allows him to live. Marines in the novels are wounded all the time, they just aren't killed by the things that would kill a normal human. The main character in the first Grey Knight novel is recoving from a wound at the start of the book. A bullet went into his lower body, after going through his armor of course, and all the way up to his chest as I recall. A normal person would have died, the marine not so much.

There is no such thing as "normal" power armor. If characters start to see any power armor as normal there is something wrong. Even the power armor in Ascension that is available to inquisitors...isn't. Very few suits made, only given to the best and brightest, blah blah. And the pictures of it certainly don't look light. Dude is huge with a tiny head!

Kasatka said >>>

Now personally i'd be tempted to say that all non-Astartes power armour is light power armour, and those that have AP 8 are in fact Best craftsmanship suits. However that doesn't really solve the issue, so lets think outside the box.

That certainly seems to be solution of representing the technological divide between what may be the "best armour" of that tactical niche that the Adeptus Mechanicus can produce (same armour rating as the best that lower, more distributed/diffuse production centres can produce). It also gives you a coherent and consistent standard by which you might be able to judge Artificer and Terminator armour. Given the mechanics on armour/damage, despite your suggestion that it is not a solution, it does appear to be a solution.

Personally speaking I would imagine that there is even greater variation. I can see "heavy civilian" power armour being produced that has a greater armour rating than the military-grade armour, if limited in terms of its battery life, increased vulnerabilities, more limited sensor suite, etc. Then, of course, you've got variation in weight (the only real way that Eldar technological superiority has been shown vis-a-vis "carapace armour") etc.

Karastka said >>>

Anyone who sticks their head in the sand and says "but i want to use 2nd ed Codex Space marines as my reference material" is as stubborn and blind as a scientist using a 50 year-old chemistry text book because they prefer the version of the periodic table of elements in there, despite it being outdated and incompatible with the updated lore.

I think that it is important to understand that different people are going to come down on different sides of the argument here. GW has long since opened the ground to the idea that "it's all canon," possibly as a reaction to disenchantment expressed by the fans to see the setting that they loved marginalised by newer materials, or the idea of "Revisionism" (aka "What's new is true"). This means that people that want to put more faith into a 2e codex and a 4e one are allowed to do so, just as the opposite case is equally valid. That the 40k RPG franchise/license utilises the latest materials does little more than recognise that this is what GW, and perhaps also the game designers, want or otherwise think is best, more marketable or whatever.

Sorry, sounds like I'm being argumentative for the sake of it whereas I'm really pointing out my own biases. As this is not a science and merely a series of related stories and game systems, I don't necessarily have to keep up with the latest materials.

Karastka said >>>

Now Sororitas armour - why not just say it's Best Crafstmanship Light Power armour - the same AP protection as full power armour, but much more lightweight, as befits the smaller, weaker figures of Adepta Sororitas.

Two points that you might want to remember.

1. If it provides the same armour protection at less weight, the implication is that it contains some form of advance in materials science, shape, or whatever (cf. Eldar "jewel studded carapace," Creatures Anathema ).
2. The weight of the armour is moderated by the powered systems, to the strength of the Sister in question doesn't really matter that much. (Well, except in combat since it adds a proportion of the strength).

In my mind, which I reserve the right to change at the dropping of a hat, should offer less damage resistance than Marine power armour.

Karastka said >>>

A Sororitas will likely only stand a head taller than an average man, but an Astartes will stand several feet taller.

Errr, since the Sisters recruit from numerous worlds, numerous local technology levels/bases, numerous environments etc. and assuming that average height hasn't significantly changed (it's a reasonable assumption based upon our current understanding of such), why would a Sister suddenly be 6'9" rather than the average height of a woman (~5'4")? And why are Marines now almost 9' tall?

Don't get me wrong, that's peachy in your interpretation of the 40k universe, I was just wondering what you're underpinning reason is for increasing the height in this fashion?

Either way, no worries.

Karastka said >>>

I really don't see why people are getting so worked up about all of this armour malarky, as they all seem balanced and viable so far...

Balanced against what, out of interest? (Again, not being argumentative, just wondering what you're basing the statement off of...)

Eponral said >>>

Because they don't want balanced and viable. They want unstoppable marines in indestructable armor that can just run around stomping everything.

On my own behalf this would not be a correct assessment of my desires when it comes down to the protection level of Marine armour, or even Eldar armour now that I think about it. Then again I'm an unapologetic simulationist, so I'm more interested in getting a "good" and coherent representation of all the different armours and weapons without overt concern for "game balance."

Eponral said >>>

When I read the 40k novels, I see time and time again marine armor that is penetrated by lasguns, solid projecticle, grenades, etc.

Based upon an earlier post, without the prerequisite of Righteous Fury, despite the BL novels a Marine seems pretty much immune to small arms fire. Your right, though, at least in my mind: it certainly does come down to Marine toughness, or rather Toughness Bonus.

As always, YMMV.

Kage

i think there has been a HUGE!!!!!! overlooking on this thread... yes marines armour does seem to have the same protectiveness as the other power armours in the series however every other book tell you that you battery life for youre power armour runs out after 1 D5 hours .... no so much an issue for a marine who has a looooooooong barttey life and i largely agree with what has already been said marines live through fire fights because their marines! not cause of their armour

I don't have the book in front of me, but I seem to recall in the first Grey Knight novel that the GKs kinda got their asses kicked by dudes with swords and bows. I do realize that they killed hundreds of guys with storm bolters and Nemisis weapons, but they did lose a guy or two. And we all know that while SMs have the best armor that can be mass produced, the GK have the best-of-the-best. I still think that the APs given are fine. If PA is all made from the same material, it is going to have limitations on thickness and weight allowed to be carried. The armor on an M1A2 or Challenger is the best in the world. Hardly anything can penetrate it. Why don't they just put more on? Then nothing will penetrate it? Probably because it goes from a 60 mile-per-hour death machine to an expensive pillbox. If the M1A1 has the same type of armor as the A2, what makes it a better tank? All the good stuff crammed inside the armor, of course!

It's what happens after the marine's power armor gives out that makes the difference.

lord inquisitor revan darksoul said:

That is one of the limitations of "civilan power armour," though as above one has to wonder whether there is such a thing as heavy civilian power armour that does have a power supply. It's still going to be as bulky as hell, but unless you're going to come up against a Marine that's not really going to be an issue. (Well, there are some obvious caveats there but you get the point.)

After all, to use a commonly advanced argument, the Imperium is a big place!

Kage

The numbers themselves are a minor concern (to me); if they seem off, they can be modified.

What I'm waiting to know are the logistics, infrastructure and other support functions necessary to keep Space Marines and their armour and weapons going. Where are the suits manufactured and who does it? What is needed to make a suit? How vulnerable to sabotage and other disruptions is the production process? When is the suit taken off? Is it taken off at all, except for repairs, medical assistance, or when changing to Terminator armour? What is the power source? Diesel, batteries, xeno blood?

Sandepande said:

The suits are manufactured either by Tech-Priests/Techmarines, or on Forge Worlds specifically blessed at making such items. The suit can be taken off whenever the wearer wants, though un-aided it takes 20 minutes to don the suit or take it off, and about 5-10 minutes with the correct rites and assistance. It can also be breached (made non-environmentally sealed) if the Battle-Brother takes damage greater than the Armour Points of the armour (which is why repair cement, a compound to seal up damage until the armour can be properly repaired is standard wargear for Marines). The power pack is a miniature fusion generator which can keep the suit going indefinitely if it's kept repaired, though that can be damaged badly enough to stop the armour with enough damage done to it.

Fair warning, I'm pulling this all from my memory, so people with books at hand should feel free to correct me.

New suits of Astartes Armor are only produced by the Forges of Holy Mars itself. They're not ordered so much as replacements are shipped to the chapters periodicly.

The primary thing needed to make the suit is the compiled and blessed STC setup. Only two of these exist, one in the Forge-Magnifactoum that produces the Armor, and one on the Alter of All Knowledge (high temple-computer of Mars). After that its just adamtium, cables, artificial muscles etc.

During maginfacture, sabatage would be essentialy unthinkable. If it were to some how occur by an agent to infultrated Mars (said to be more secure then terra itself) and they chose to sabatage a suit of armor, instead of just the magnifacturing plant, It would still be random, as they're no way to know who will get a particular suit of armor. After production, however, it wouldn't be all that hard to sabatoge or damage a suit, say during transit or while it's in the Chapter's armory.

There seems to be some great differances over when Marines take of the Armor. In general, for most chapters, they put on the armor for 1 or 2 occations, battle (and preperation there of), and for some chapters/members formal or religious settings. For example, when fighing the 'nids, Calgar specificly put on his armor to pray for days at the foot of Gulliman.

The power source is a micro-fusion plant in the back pack, augmented by battery systems (likely for power draw control & back ups). Its good for about a Month of use before recharge-refuel. (At least, that's true for the guys that were on Teros)

Kage2020 said:

Kage said >>>

That certainly seems to be solution of representing the technological divide between what may be the "best armour" of that tactical niche that the Adeptus Mechanicus can produce (same armour rating as the best that lower, more distributed/diffuse production centres can produce). It also gives you a coherent and consistent standard by which you might be able to judge Artificer and Terminator armour. Given the mechanics on armour/damage, despite your suggestion that it is not a solution, it does appear to be a solution.

Personally speaking I would imagine that there is even greater variation. I can see "heavy civilian" power armour being produced that has a greater armour rating than the military-grade armour, if limited in terms of its battery life, increased vulnerabilities, more limited sensor suite, etc. Then, of course, you've got variation in weight (the only real way that Eldar technological superiority has been shown vis-a-vis "carapace armour") etc.

Well when you phrase it like that, i suppose it is one of the more viable solutions offered so far. And as for the 'heavy civ' patterns, that's how i view the armour's listed in the core book of DH and RT. In RT the fact that nearly everyone can get a free suit of good if not best quality of power armour suggests they are relatively readily available, just hard to maintain and operate effectively.

Kage said >>>

I think that it is important to understand that different people are going to come down on different sides of the argument here. GW has long since opened the ground to the idea that "it's all canon," possibly as a reaction to disenchantment expressed by the fans to see the setting that they loved marginalised by newer materials, or the idea of "Revisionism" (aka "What's new is true"). This means that people that want to put more faith into a 2e codex and a 4e one are allowed to do so, just as the opposite case is equally valid. That the 40k RPG franchise/license utilises the latest materials does little more than recognise that this is what GW, and perhaps also the game designers, want or otherwise think is best, more marketable or whatever.

Sorry, sounds like I'm being argumentative for the sake of it whereas I'm really pointing out my own biases. As this is not a science and merely a series of related stories and game systems, I don't necessarily have to keep up with the latest materials.

I completely understand that point of view, but i'd like to stress once again that GW design any current army and the accompanying fluff around a specific edition,or ideal they have for 40k. As FFG's 40k RPG is based on the latest lore, in fact it even expands upon and makes up some of it's own, it's important to look to later editions of army books for more pertinent information. I'm not saying older books should be ignored, just that it shouldn't be considered AS canon as later material that by GW's own admission, should supercede it. Hell if we operate on equal canonicity for all products, i want my marines to be RT era marines and have jetbikes all over the show.

Kage said >>>

Two points that you might want to remember.

1. If it provides the same armour protection at less weight, the implication is that it contains some form of advance in materials science, shape, or whatever (cf. Eldar "jewel studded carapace," Creatures Anathema).
2. The weight of the armour is moderated by the powered systems, to the strength of the Sister in question doesn't really matter that much. (Well, except in combat since it adds a proportion of the strength).

In my mind, which I reserve the right to change at the dropping of a hat, should offer less damage resistance than Marine power armour.

Well to appease both the tabletop fans of equal saves for astartes/sororitas, and the DH fans who follow the "sororitas use light power armour" line, i went for the best quality light power armour. Same AP for both, but the astartes benefit from all sorts of funky additional systems, not to mention the much less limited power supply.

This would explain how Sororitas armour is clearly smaller and less bulky, despite offering the same protection without any difference in technology: the armour is as good ,there's just less of an Adepta Sororitas to protect, so less armour is needed.

As to your point about Sororitas armour offering less protection - it arguably does. It doesn't boost your strength, it doesn't automatically treat your wounds, and the person inside it isn't half a tonne of armour muscle with an insanely hardy constitution. An Astartes can have his armour penetrated by what would be a lethal round to a Sororitas and just shrug it off and carry on killing.

Kage said >>>

Errr, since the Sisters recruit from numerous worlds, numerous local technology levels/bases, numerous environments etc. and assuming that average height hasn't significantly changed (it's a reasonable assumption based upon our current understanding of such), why would a Sister suddenly be 6'9" rather than the average height of a woman (~5'4")? And why are Marines now almost 9' tall?

Don't get me wrong, that's peachy in your interpretation of the 40k universe, I was just wondering what you're underpinning reason is for increasing the height in this fashion?

Either way, no worries.

I think you misconstrued my meaning - a Sororitas is a standard human, without any gene modification or major implantation, but power armour itself has big clompy boots and a large helmet and backpack, thus making you stand taller than you normally would.

For a marine who is already a lot taller than a normal human, this increase is even larger still.

Kage said >>>

Balanced against what, out of interest? (Again, not being argumentative, just wondering what you're basing the statement off of...)

Balanced against the existing armours and game mechanics. Rogue Trader tried to change a few too many existing pieces of gear and rules to mesh too happily in my opinion, so i believe Deathwatch will learn from this mistake and add, rather than alter any new thing it wants to try.

Sandepande said >>>

The numbers themselves are a minor concern (to me); if they seem off, they can be modified.

What I'm waiting to know are the logistics, infrastructure and other support functions necessary to keep Space Marines and their armour and weapons going. Where are the suits manufactured and who does it? What is needed to make a suit? How vulnerable to sabotage and other disruptions is the production process? When is the suit taken off? Is it taken off at all, except for repairs, medical assistance, or when changing to Terminator armour? What is the power source? Diesel, batteries, xeno blood?

In nearly all of the fiction i have read, marines wear habits, robes or simple combat fatigues when not at war or preparing for war. Their armour is tended to by chapter serfs and company techmarines when not in use, though some marines take pride in maintaining their own armour. I believe only a handful of forgeworlds are still able to craft Astartes power armour, so they are guarded jealously.

That said, many chapters maintain stores of ancient, but well maintained power armour, hence the mish-mash approach GW take on the marine sprues and why you rarely see entire units with identical armour. It is a lucky chapter indeed that can obtain and maintain even a single units worth of new model power armour, let alone an entire company.

The armour itself is a strong exoskeletal suit, hardwired into the black-carapace implanted into all Astartes. This direct interface allows the armour to monitor all of the marines vitals and relay them back to their squadmates, commanders and apothecaries. The armour consists of large ceramite plates (ceramite being a type of ceramic compound that is incredibly tough and conducts almost no heat, making it effective against heat based weaponry), with extra ablative plating on the pauldrons to cover the neck, power pack and torso from various angles. To move this heavy amalgam of plates, the exosuit is laced with fibre bundles of artificual musculature, which is activated via electrical impulse from the power pack on the rear. There are also numerous vox relays, short and long range communication, scanning equipment, hazardous environment detectors, medicae equipment and monitoring equipment, and copious amounts of storage compartments and utility attachments for extra ammo clips, grenades, knives and specialist to attach to or be stored in, such as power weapons, apothecary's narthecium gauntlets etc.

Terminator, or Tactical Dreadnought, armour is a heavier version yet, with extra plates of plasteel (a portmanteau of plastic and steel) on vital areas and an external rib system of adamantium (the strongest material known to man) to support the bulk of these massive suits. In addition to these already mighty defences, there is a small power field built into the suits providing even more protection. These massive suits also incorporate full sensorium arrays hardwired into the wearers brains, allowing an even more direct interface with the tactical situation and sharing of senses between squadmates.

The enhanced support and increased power supply of these suits allows the armament of the wielder to increase proportionately too, with the standard Stormbolter being literally twice as good as a bolter and the power fist enhancing the users melee ability to nearly that of a dreadnought. Also available are many unique pieces of wargear such as massive shoulder mounted Cyclone missile launchers, man-portable assault cannons and teleporter beacons, allow the direct insertion of the unit to the heart of hostilities.

Without the black carapace to interface with these suits, however, a marine is wearing nothing more than a glorified suit of civilian power armour, or a nigh on immovable hulk of plasteel, ceramite and adamantium in the case of Terminator armour, no matter how well crafted it is, as it is the array of electronics and augmentations built into the suit and requiring a direct connection to the wearer that gives it the edge over cheaper imitations or xenos copies (Ork Mega Armour for example).

Hope that explains what you wanted explained about Astartes armours Sandepande.

Kasatka said:

What if the wearer of PA has MIU?