Dark Pact: bound ally

as far as i can see no where in the rules does it say that you discard the pact if the ally is discarded. in fact i believe the ally cannot be discarded by any means other than when the ancient one wakes up .

the ally is not yours it is the lurkers and he has bound it to you in ways that cannot be undone.

the ally is not an ally he is a 'bound ally'

so all this becomes moot, you cannot discard the ally for any reason, either intentionally or by a rule as he is no longer an ally he is a bound ally. so there fore you cannot discard the pact.

the only way to discard the pact is to be devoured or to wake up the ancient one in which case it goes on the AO.

i think this is what the designers intended. thematically it make a whole lot of sense.

The Thing In The Attic said:

The Bound Ally card itself says "attach the ally to this card." That would seem to mean that wherever one card goes, the other follows. But Duke and Brinton are already on the weaker side... you should be allowed to discard them to gain their ability, but if you do you still hold the Bound Ally card (so you can't gain another ally) and it still attaches to the AO if it awakens.

Tibs said:

I'm not sure if you you saw my next post or not, because I backpedalled, and more or less agree with you that the problem lies with the Lurker's Pacts, and not necessarily the classic Ancient Ones. I think that almost all of those conflicts will fade away if the Lurker excuses himself from the Final Battle, taking all his "gifts" with him...except for the "Bound Ally = Extra Doom Success", of course.

And it is that exception that convinces me that NO Dark Pact may be voluntarily discarded by the player. You may do whatever you want with the Ally as if he were gained normally, but the Pact stays whether you retain the Ally's services or not. Sir Brinton, Duke, and The Messenger should be freely discarded for benefits, but if you happen to gain Foolishness as a Bound Ally while you already have Young Zoog, say goodbye to them both...sucks to be you. (Ooo, and how much would it suck to gain Basil Elton as a Bound Ally, only to lose him just before he would be most useful?)

As for that "sacred" thing...what's sacred to me is Chaosium's Masks of Nyarlathotep and how supremely awesome Nyarl was in that adventure. The fact that most of us treat the Great Meddler as a >choke< "tutorial GOO" irks me to NO END, and I would HAPPILY burn my old Nyarl sheet in favor of an official FFG update that would gleefully BURN ME BACK.

No, I didn't see your subsequent post, sorry.

And if FFG offered an updated Nyarlathotep sheet, I'd be all for it. Currently though, it seems we must wade in dark waters. Luckily the expansion Masks are pretty kickass. In a recent game against Nyar using only the feeble Dark Pharaoh expansion (not even the herald was used), we got MASSACRED. In the end someone joined Nyar, but it was a lost cause anyway. I was so giddy that we lost to the Crawling Chaos. Man, I love the Epic Battle deck.

Tibs said:

I disagree here. i think it means that the ally is now the lurkers and serves you through his dark pact. normally that means the ally stays here. now for allys that you can discard (an here i realise that i had forgotten about the discarding abilities of certain allies when i wrote my last post) i firmly believe that the pact remains behind as you choose to discard the ally but you have still struck up a pact with the lurker and that is something that you can't get out of.

"An Encounter says "Gain 1 Stamina," but your Stamina is maxed. Could you still gain a Power Token if you had a Blood Pact?"

Musha Shukou said:

No. Keep posting questions here, Tibs, Coltfan, or I will try to compile them and submit them (although it's a bit of a problem since JR— the FAQ guy, has a currently bouncing e-mail address).

Tibs said:

I expected it ;'D

jgt7771 said:

O_O Updated base game Ancient Ones? YES PLEASE! GIMME!

Edit - Disregard

[10 char]

Brine said:

There is a rule that you add a doom token each time a gate opens. These new double-gate cards specifically say that you open two gates but do not add a doom token.

I have a question for relationship cards that came up in tonight's game. You lose the relationship card to the investigator on both side when you are devoured (and presumably retired since that acts as a devouring). However, I went to the science and had the opportunity to switch bodies. It says your soul is removed and placed into another body if you choose. Would the relationships stay in this case? I know this occurence doesn't act specifically like a devouring because this "switched bodies" says you discard everything, even trophies. But relationships say they are discarded when devoured, and this is still the same soul, and also not an item in possession to be discarded like the rest of the cards, clues, and trophies. What do you guys think?

Also, switching bodies tells you to choose another investigator. Does that mean choose randomly, or specifically decide which one? How do you guys play it?

DoomTurtle said:

I think you should keep the relationship card until FFG specifically rules you can't. It sounds right to me.

If it says choose, then it's not random. Unless it's written wrong. Cough cough...

I'd say you lose his Relationship card, and the other one associated with him for two reasons:

1. The original investigator who had the relationship card is gone. Similarly to an investigator who is devoured or retired, he takes the relationship card with him.
2. Thematic purposes! That investigator has specific relationships with two other investigators. If he leaves, then there is no more relationship.

Tibs said:

Ah, but it's the same person, his or her brain was swapped into a new body.

It occurs to me that with the new Lurker gates, it is impossible for Silas Marsh to (unintentionally) fail his personal story. There are two R'lyeh gates. One is a split gate so he can always choose the Abyss instead if that opens on him. The other is - otherwise very thematically, of course - the devouring gate, which admittedly isn't a great improvement, but still means that he's devoured before the failure effects of the personal story happen.

I was thinking the same thing Avi, that it's the same person/soul, with a new body. It's not a possession to discard, so that's why I thought that the relationships might stay. But I don't know, I could definitely imagine being traveling partners with Mandy or Jenny , but would I want that same relationship if their body now inhabits Gloria or Hank?

As for Silas, I thought the same thing since I played him last night. Also, he fails his personal story by entering R'Lyeh, and gets devoured by becoming a Deep One. Did they mean for us to put the replacement Deep One monster token at the gate of R'Lyeh in town? It wouldn't make sense to have it just sitting in the first section of R'Lyeh. I guess you could say just by starting to be sucked in makes his inherent connection with R'Lyeh prominent that he turns into a Deep One before going through the gate completely and stand outside the gate. Which now it can act like a monster should, instead of sitting in an Outer World with no real rules to support it.

Ah, but it's the same person, his or her brain was swapped into a new body.

And what if we add the Mi-Go Brain Cylinder? "Monterey Jack, I just don't know WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!"

Lovely. But I bet it won't work.

Isn't it still possible for Sailas to be moved to R'leyh another way such as an encounter that swaps other worlds or sucks you into another world?

DoomTurtle said:

What, do you have something against fogies and retards (and remember, he won't be retarded anymore, stealing his brain will fix him)?

Just opened Lurker and here are my 2 cents:

I like the relationship theme of the items but i think they should have been in a big exp, having them in a small makes the cards kind of watered down and boring. Yawn for the new items. ( side note: where the heck is the Book of Eibon??????)

New gates are cool, again should have been in a big exp.

Love the pact cards, they are more what the temptation cards from bgotw should have been.

It just seems like this exp is filler. I think this is the second worst exp ( first being dp). It is all filler and fixing. No need to rush out for this one.

A bible? Really? has anyone at FF read Lovecraft?

pittplayer said:

It was in the Kingsport expansion, as Livre D'Ivon.

Really? You put BGotW above CotDP?

oh yes i love the theme and the exp had great items and mthos cards. the herald was a hard one but cool. my main problem with lurker is how bland the items are.

Oh man, I love the items. (Granted, there's not many of them, but the relationship cards provide enough flavor to make up for it.)

Fine clothing!

Avi_dreader said:

But do the other investigators know that? Would they believe it straight from the mouth of this new person?