My opinion is that the rules are good. Much better than before. Equipment is much more balanced, as are the basic rules of play. Command points seem great.

My problem still lies in the simplistic gameplay. This is nothing more than a run-and-gun game. While that can be fine and fun, there is zero depth. Even trying the capture the flag provided little reason to actually get the flag since if you could just eliminate the team, you would win.

My hope was that they would have Skills actually have some effect on the game. Like if you could succeed at a skill challenge you would get X (I'm not referring to merely being some sort of win condition). It would at least give some sort of reason to move around the map, rather than hunt the enemy.

Hmm....I'm very much on the boat on Tannhauser. The rules work and work well. But the gameplay is kinda dull, only because...it's just a simply elimination game no matter what scenario you are playing.

My only thought is that, since this is trying to simulate some sort of first person shooter game...maybe allow all the characters to return to the board? Improve the reinforcement rules? Something...I dunno.

I've played 6 games so far under the new rules, all in Objective Mode, and all 6 were fantastic! I'd compare it much more to chess than to "run-and-gun".

Don

I think your summary is fair and the new rules have made the game smoother. Like you I still think it's missing something. If I were to nail it as 3 problems they would be as below.

PFS - Just limits the game to a narrower choice of movement and in my opinion takes out some of the LOS fun. It also inhibits the expanadability of the game e.g. take the castle, there would have been so much more room for manouver if it was square grids. You could have probably fielded another couple of extra troops with all extra the space gained. FFG could have also added the external grounds e.g. bridge, checkpoint etc with out it being made stupid looking by the PFS system.

Missions - The missions just don't seem rewarding enough & are too prescribed with little random factor e.g. you play Last Night on Earth or Space hulk and you feel the tension/pressure & lunacy/fun from the word go. In some ways even Star Wars minis was a more fun/tactical shooter than Tannhauser

Replayability - The PFS contributes to some of my negativity here as it becomes familiar and because movement is limited you get the same positions/tactics cropping up, not to say this doesn't happen in other games but at least if someone makes a positioning error they kiss LOS goodbye & if a map is good then there will be options to circumvent this tactic. The PFS makes it too easy to get correct positioning, which some will say is good but I think it detracts from the fun in some ways. Because there is no chaos factor in gameplay, each time you play it turns out the same mostly, if you play the same maps, characters etc.

How would I fix it?

FFG need to get big ones between their legs and scap the PFS system. I said this originally & I am sticking to my guns. While Tannhauser keeps this system it will be like a ball & chain around it's neck. Move to a grid system ASAP.

Make the missions better and in some ways, more expandable & changeable maps would help with this. By not having fixed objective locations and maybe replacing them with tokens would have been better, it seems crazy that objective circles can't be used for movement and they are fixed positions although I understand logically it makes sense for some in the Telsa priory, although no reason why you couldn't have put an objective token over the terrain feature rather than waste that circle. Grid maps would give more play area, better replayability and make them easier to expand the game area.

Switch from the heavy card stock to a lighter design like Okko or LNOE or even the heavy grain paper. I would have much rather had a few floors of the castle than just the one heavy cardstock one we have. I am sure lighter/thinner maps could have made this possible and would have also been great for the game being able to move between floors etc & given more objective/mission variety.

Introduce cards into the game. Last Night on Earth is a great example of how cards make a game more replayable and more fun as no two games turn out the same. Tannhauser could introduce card decks quite easily e.g. a strategy deck, abilities deck and maybe an equipment deck or maybe even just a random events deck. I am sure the designers at FFG could come up with some great ideas that would really make the game more interesting. For example there could be cards that boost movement or reduce movement, they could effect an individual or the whole unit. There could be a card that allows someone with a knife to do a stealth attack without being counterattacked. There could be cards that turn the lights out in certain rooms/areas that reduce movement. Really there is lots of possibilities here and much more interesting effects could be thought up than the ones I have just mentioned for sure. The introduction of card decks would seriously shake up gameplay and make each game much more enjoyable. FFG could market the cards seperately so those who didn't want them could carry on as normal. Those who wanted a bit more variety could purchase the card decks.

Bin the clumsy character cards and just put them on a standard playing card of which you can just add equipment cards next to them with the particular rule explained on them, these could be half size. They would certainly save all the laborious tokens and equipment could be much quicker located flicking through a card deck than sifting through all the tokens even if you do bag them seperate.

Ultimately I think there is a lot that could be done for Tannhauser and believe it or not I love the theme and some of the gameplay elements, and desperately would like it to have a better standing than it does. Really I think FFG have missed a trick or a few of them. Like one of my old bosses used to say "you keep doing the same and it gives you the same outcome" this is great if something is working but if it's not? Then you need to change your approach. Really I hoped FFG was going to be more radical and bold with their revised rules and take on the game and it's contents of which I love the pre-paints.

I am sure there will be others on here who will say go play another game (of which I do) or the way it is, is just fine, to which I would say why doesn't it fly off the shelves then. I would be quite happy if FFG said they were going back to the drawing board with Tannhauser. They could always say those who bought the new rules will get some sort of concession on release of the fully redesigned version (easy to police the shop just marks you old rules in a certain way so they cannot be reused or they have an online record of purchase they could issue a voucher from). Something needs to change or Tannhauser will just not progress how it should

Come on FFG be bold and radical before it is too late!

For capture the flag we play like a FPS

sort of.

When a character dies it returns on the following turn after you roll initiative.

However, the character is equipped without any of his items, he must pick up other items or the items he/she dropped.

You can only win by the rule book states "In capture the flag mode, a player wins immediately when he
has planted two of his opponent’s flag tokens."

The Sundance Kid said:

I shall try this. It defeats the points of 'reinforcements' and the one Reich generic guy who can come back to life, however. But this might be a simple solution. It would force you to actually play the scenario rather than blast away.

And since the game is already pretty much a FPS replica...it would fit fairly well. They clearly liked the idea of having non-hero reinforcements. I'm curious then, perhaps when the reinforcement packs come out, that perhaps this would be the key.

You can have 5 people on the board. You can bring out non-heroes for free. You can bring out heroes for 3 reinforcement points. If you have less than 5 people on the board (and you have the non-heroes packs) you can bring in a non-hero even if you have that figure on the board already.

Something to consider...

Other rules you may want to consider for additional play

heroes need 2 turns to return troops need 1

may only bring back 1 unit back at a time, which you can take advantage of the not dead yet ability under my house rules.

Say 2 characters die on the same turn, one is a stosstruppen. Brong one back normally, and the Stoss comesback with not dead yet.

I really think that the FPS aspect of the game is linked to playing in deathmatch mode, capture the flag mode, domination mode, and/or king of the hill mode.

Objective mode and story mode are very different, especially when played without reinforcements. My group plays almost exclusively in objective or story mode, without reinforcements (unless part of the scenario).

The games I have played have almost never ended by one side being killed, rather they have almost always ended by one side achieving their objectives or the goal of the scenario.

Just out of curiosity, how many people are playing in which mode, at what level of difficulty? Why did you choose the mode you play? How do the different modes shape the perception of the game?

Thanks, Don