My Comments and suggestions

By larienna, in DungeonQuest

I am very happy te learn that a remake of this game will be done. According to what I have seen so far, I am very happy with the adaptation. It seem like the kind of adaptation I would have done myself.

I made a post on BGG and I only intend to repeat a portion of what I said over there.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/543888/my-comments-about-the-game-so-far

What I am going to try to do in this post is to make a comprehensive list of suggestions for Dungeon quest that maybe could be released as an expansion if the game is almost ready to be released.

Key doors: In order to make sure the game is not easier to finish with more players since you can use other people's path to exit the dungeon, I thought of having key doors could solve the problem. The game would have door tiles with key number, when a player draw the tile, they get the key. Later on, only the player with the key can pass through this door preventing other players to use this path.

One time use powers and items : In order to slightly increase the strategy in the game and give the player some control over the game, It would be interesting to have a large amount of "one time use" elements to reproduce the "Should I use it now or save it for later" syndrome. I thought first of using items which are probably already part of the game. But my idea is that each character could have 5 special abilities which are all one time use. At the beginning of the game, they chose 2-3 out of 5.

Artifacts : These are simple permanent magical item. The twist that would add strategy is that you could only have one of these items. So when you acquire an new artifact, you need to choose which one you want to keep. Maybe you could start with 1 artifact and find other artifacts in the dungeon cards.

No RPS Combat : I doubt that the new game use the same combat system than the original game, but I strongly hope that combat will not be resolved using a rock paper scisor mechanic. I would like the stats of the character to have more influences in the combat.

Tile Punching And Plastification : This is more a pratical advice for designing the square tile punch tray. Make sure all the dungeon square tiles are side by side so that you could easily cut throught all the tiles using an exacto knife. It also makes it easier to plastify the tile first and then cut everything with an knife.

In overall, the game must give to the player the illusion that they have a chance to succeed. By giving weak or limited special powers and abilities, it helps create that illusion.

For example, you might get an amulet of fire protection that makes you imune to fire trap and when the dragon awakens, you roll 3 dice and take the 2 lowest dice for damage. If a player gets an artifact like this, he will say, wow, my chances of survival are much better. He will be more willing to risk passing through trap tiles, he will take more stuff in the dragon's lair, etc. But is he really in a better position? Mathematically, yes you have a bit more chances, but not that much. For example, If he does not draw any fire trap or if the dragon roll is 4-5-6 (9 dmg instead of 11 dmg) , the player is still going to get screwed.

one time use powers and items: In order to slightly increase the strategy in the game and give the player some control over the game, It would be interesting to have a large amount of "one time use" elements to reproduce the "Should I use it now or save it for later" syndrome. I thought first of using items which are probably already part of the game. But my idea is that each character could have 5 special abilities which are all one time use. At the beginning of the game, they chose 2-3 out of 5.

This is not unlike the game "Talisman," in which they have one time use powers in the form of SPELLS. It would be a very simple mechanic to allow characters to have access to spell cards. Players could start with one or two, and "spell scrolls" could be easily added as dungeon treasure. I figured that this game would already include something like this (didn't the origional Dungeonquest: Heroes have spells added?), but if it doesn't, I'm almost certain that they'd add it for the expansion.

Artifacts: These are simple permanent magical item. The twist that would add strategy is that you could only have one of these items. So when you acquire an new artifact, you need to choose which one you want to keep. Maybe you could start with 1 artifact and find other artifacts in the dungeon cards.

Again, I'd figure that they'd already have that, but if they don't, it's a great expansion idea.

No RPS Combat: I doubt that the new game use the same combat system than the original game, but I strongly hope that combat will not be resolved using a rock paper scisor mechanic. I would like the stats of the character to have more influences in the combat.

Here's where I disagree. What's wrong with using Rochambaeu? It's a mechanic no one uses. I'd definitely refer to the "Rock, Paper, and Scissors" as "Melee, Ranged, and Magic," but I don't see the need to get rid of it. If you don't like the Win or Lose regardless of statistics mechanic, then there are ways to incorporate character functions such as stats to a final outcome of a Rochambeau. For instance, have a win, loss, or tie as a resulting "die roll," THEN add characteristic modifiers. That way, there is an element of strategy, luck, and character all placed in a dynamic combat.

I don't believe in just dropping a mechanic. I believe in making a poor mechanic a dynamic and interesting one. Know what I'm sayin'? :D

In overall, the game must give to the player the illusion that they have a chance to succeed. By giving weak or limited special powers and abilities, it helps create that illusion.

For example, you might get an amulet of fire protection that makes you imune to fire trap and when the dragon awakens, you roll 3 dice and take the 2 lowest dice for damage. If a player gets an artifact like this, he will say, wow, my chances of survival are much better. He will be more willing to risk passing through trap tiles, he will take more stuff in the dragon's lair, etc. But is he really in a better position? Mathematically, yes you have a bit more chances, but not that much. For example, If he does not draw any fire trap or if the dragon roll is 4-5-6 (9 dmg instead of 11 dmg) , the player is still going to get screwed.

I think being given an "illusion" is actually kind of insulting. I think that the base game gives no illusions. I think it's better to be honest and say that "This game is HARDCORE difficult!" I think it's far more satisfying to win a game known to be stacked against me than to be given a false sense of security.

I'm not saying that powers and artifacts is a BAD idea, if fact, quite the opposite! I think it's a grand idea. "Powers and Artifacts" even sounds like a good name for a Dungeonquest expansion.

Okay, I tried to fix that post, like, three times now. I'm just leaving it as is. Sorry for the inconvenience. serio.gif

I don't personally care about the RPS mechanic from the old edition. If it's included in this edition I won't mind a bit. Having said that, I don't think that type of combat mechanic is really FFG's style. They have been on a "card combat" kick lately, but the odds in each game are more diversified than just "this beats that which beat the other thing, all the time." I think I read something about dice in this new edition, and if that's so I imagine they will be used for combat (the tile-movement mechanic appears to be unchanged and it's diceless, so I'm not sure what else these dice would be for except combat.)

Unfortunately, I think it's far too late in the day to make any changes in the game. All rules, cards, minis, etc, are all set and the only changes going forward from here would be typos and errors...

-shnar

shnar said:

Unfortunately, I think it's far too late in the day to make any changes in the game. All rules, cards, minis, etc, are all set and the only changes going forward from here would be typos and errors...

-shnar

I would say definitely to this. Also I'd wait until the game actually comes out and see how everything new and old works out before getting too excited about needing to fix anything or add in expansions.

I was under the impression that this is all speculation and expansion talk.

Yeah, it was more wishful thinking on the OP's part than any serious suggestions for alteration in the base game. Maybe potential expansion talk, but we'll see what we'll see for that.

Well, it seems that I learned about the existence of this project too late. So I guess it will be at most some suggestions for an expansion.

larienna said:

Well, it seems that I learned about the existence of this project too late. So I guess it will be at most some suggestions for an expansion.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think FFG (or any company) routinely announces new products so early in the design process that fan feedback would be incorporated into the initial release. It's always for the expansions, or for naught. =P

The game isn't even out yet and you're already trying to re-design it? I prefer to wait until my copy gets shipped and I can play it several times before I start to tinker with the mechanics. For those of us who have never played the previous version, perhaps we won't want the changes you suggest. I prefer to wait and see...why don't you?

What part of "speculation" escapes people?

Sorry, I don't remember seeing the words - "a comprehensive list of suggestions" - prior to my first post. Perhaps I didn't have my morning cup of coffee.