I have a problem with the sequence of firing weapons, and when the Void Shields come into play. The rules are rather ambiguous about it:

"...the target ship's void shield will cancel any number of incoming hits..."

Who decides which weapon shot is absorbed by the shield? The attacker or the defender? Are all weapons fired by the attacker considered to be simultaneous? I've done a very quick search of previous combat threads and the consensus is that the attacker fires guns in their chosen sequence, thus forcing the decision of what the shields do. However, the rules then state that "If the attacker combines the damage or multiple macrobatteries against the defending ship, the attacker chooses which hits are discarded by the void shields."

This implies that salvo shooting is the exception to the void shield sequence.

I personally think that the attacker always chooses which weapons are affected by the shields (and thus agree with previous posts), but another in my party thinks that the salvo firing quote indicates that it is normally the defender.

Can someone please advise, or provide references to who is correct?

As the person claiming the defender gets to chose for a mechanism for how the defender gets to chose.

For the attacker choosing the mechanism is simple: The first hits cause the shield to fail for long enough for the following hits to get through, then the shield comes back up. Because the attacker controls when his weapons fire, he controls the order in which they hit the enemy ship.

As the person claiming the defender gets to chose for a mechanism for how the defender gets to chose.

Er... huh?

As you noted, the defender nullifies one hit determined by the attacker in each salvo. For non-salvo hits, it becomes irrelevant since all shots from a single weapon are equal anyway.

But what happens when the same ship fires multiple weapons in one turn? Who decides which weapon is affected?

The attacker, since he declares which weapon he is firing first.

It's mentioned in the book if you read it carefully. If you fire in a salvo the attacker chooses which weapon is blocked by the shields. So you can choose the lowest damage. The defender chooses which hit is nullified normally. If there are multiple ships attacking one ship the defender gets shields against both of them as the turns are a half hour.

Errant : "The attacker, since he declares which weapon he is firing first."

Ringarin : "The defender chooses which hit is nullified normally."

Ha! Two different answers right after each other. This is the exact problem my group is having.

The space combat system is modeled after Battlefleet Gothic. The entire point of the combat system, and indeed the entire point of non-lance weaponry, is for the attacker to use their conventional weaponry to overload the shields so that their lance weaponry can hit the ship. The book reiterates this. The attackers is able to use their cannons to disable the shields so they can hit with their lance weaponry. The attacker chooses.

Is there any situation in which you wouldn't want to use a salvo on a single enemy anyway?

Ringarin said:

- The way I read it is that the attacker makes his attack roll, then he knows how many hits from each gun and how many will be stopped by the void shield.

- The attacker then chooses which gun(s) have their hits blocked. If you have one macrobattery that does 1d10+1 and another that does 1d10+4, you will chose to negate hits from the 1d10+1 gun first.

- Then the attacker rolls damage for the hits that weren't negated.

If all your macrobatteries deal the same damage, it doesn't matter which gun is negated. How often do people mix different batteries ?

Bilateralrope said:

How often? Most common example I can think of would be Cruisers mounting Macrbattery Broadside and Titanforge Lance Batteries. You want the macrocannon rounds to the targets voidshields so the lance strikes (which ignore armor) can rip the ship neatly in two.

-=Brother Praetue=-

Most common example I can think of would be Cruisers mounting Macrbattery Broadside and Titanforge Lance Batteries.

You can get the combination macrocannon/lance strike a lot cheaper than with cruisers.

Bilateralrope said:

Rarely. The best combination for non cruisers is a macrocannon with a lance. With a pair of macrocannons against cruiser's armor most smaller ships will rarely breach the armor of a cruiser. Even when they do it will take a long time to down a cruiser. Lances on the other hand go straight through armor. Sure they can't get multiple hits, but their crit rating is low. Thus what a frigate, raider or even transport wants to do is this.

Round 1

- Scan ship well enough to find shields, and weapons.

-Lock on to target

-Put your backs into it

At this point with the RT's floating bonus you can be 10-30+ to hit with your lance. Remember it's not about damage it's about managing to crit with the lance.

- Attempt a hit and run against shields

- Hit with macrocannon and lance.

-Knock down shields with cannons if they are still up

-Crit with lance and take out the shield

Round 2

-Lock on to target

-Put your backs into it

- Attempt a hit and run against best weapon system

- Hit with macrocannon and lance.

-Cannons likely won't damage the cruiser at this point, but you'll need them if the shields are repaired.

-Crit with lance and take out best remaining weapon.

(repeat until you defang cruiser, and force him to run for it)

With a frigate, or raider you can often stay behind the cruiser for a lot of the combat, and still keep your target in the forward arc. Remember a cruiser only does 45 turns while frigates and raiders do 90 with the speed difference a cruiser will rarely be able to determine how the frigate/raider comes at him. Depending on the enemy's command score you may want to avoid getting close enough to do hit and runs. 2 raiders vs a cruiser is deadly for the cruiser if the raiders have good crews.

Brother Praetus said:

That's mixing lances with macrobatteries, which is not what I was asking about. I was asking how often people mix different kinds of macrobatteries. For example, do people mix broadsides and plasma batteries ?

Bilateralrope said:

It can happen. I've done that exact combination once, more as a study in viability. The extra component that a plasma battery can damage/destroy on a solid hit makes them an interesting choice. The broadside is best for bringing down shields and possibly softening up a opposing vessel, followed by the plasma battery to try to disable multiple components.

I think more often you will probably see the Sunsear laser battery mixed with a Mars Pattern broadside. Best range with decent hitting power, backed by some serious firepower once you close the gap some.

But, yes, I'm sure there are those who mix their weaponry. I've tinkered around with a few combinations myself; always trying to figure out what most fits the feel I'm going for for a Rogue Trader.

-=Brother Praetus=-

I don't have my rulebook with me atm, so this is going by memory. Take it with a grain of salt:

1) The attacker chooses what order weapons are fired in. So, whichever weapon succeeds at a BS test first has a hit negated by the void shield(s)

2) I seem to recall in the rules for combining of macrobatteries, it says that the attacker rolls the damage dice and *then* chooses a hit to negate.

@Dalnor

2 raiders vs a cruiser is deadly for the cruiser if the raiders have good crews.

And if the cruiser is piloted by a moron and has bad crew and equipment herself - both not exactly certain assumptions when it comes to the navy's pride. Even with the 45° turning, the only squares safe from a cruiser's wrath are those that are directly behind her at the start of her turn where you very likely can't use your prow slot. If you can't make it there, you might be facing a macro cannon and in the worst case two Titanforge Lance batteries for up to four lance hits per turn - which would on average be enough to shred a Hazeroth Privateer in a single turn, landing him somewhere around Crit-8. And with the availability of the Tenebro-Maze, I wouldn't be too sure about taking out the shield in the first round (or successfully making your Hit&Run Check) either.

@dvang

2) I seem to recall in the rules for combining of macrobatteries, it says that the attacker rolls the damage dice and *then* chooses a hit to negate.

You recall wrongly.