So here's the question: Are the new Night's Watch cards total garbage, or what? I'm hoping someone can prove me wrong here, but I can't figure out how to build a Night's Watch deck that would actually win a game. The Wall is cool, and makes defending challenges easier, but defending challenges keeps you from losing the game, not winning it. Each NW agenda makes the game progressively harder to win, but I don't see any real benefit to building a NW deck, as opposed to using in-house characters.

Are people just adding in a couple NW cards to complement existing decks, or has anyone actually built a successful NW deck? Their cards just kind of seem like garbage...

From what I have seen, most people will use Wildlings over Nights Watch.

That isn't to say that Nights Watch are trash. They are actually amazing. Imagine having cheap neutral characters with all 3 icons. That is the power they have.

They are cheap and very effective.

I used the int and mil icon agendas in my Greyjoy deck for the Midwestern Melee. They proved to be VERY valuable. They help cover weaknesses that houses have.

At Huseman: I can not think of Greyjoy needing more military icons but ok.

I agree that people would much rather have characters with icons already and then get other bonuses from the agendas but I do not think that the Night's Watch at total garbage. Once I get the last chapter pack, I will finish my Stark NW deck. Mainly NW and using Winterfell from LoW, I should be able to help increase power grab potential. The NW also recruited some of the Starks to help also. LoW Eddard for defense and renown. CS Arya to take others renown. KL Sansa for renown and strength. I still have not decided which Catelyn will work best with that deck. Maybe I will even use the LoW Bran for surprise power grab. Not sure about that one.

Honestly I could not tell you about other houses though.

Young Ranger said:

To be fair, I never said it was a weakness Greyjoy had. Just that it helps cover weaknesses a house may have.

I used it for the extra potential. By using cheap Nights Watch characters with Mil icons, I didn't have to dig deeper into Greyjoy for the more expensive characters. They let me keep my gold cost low but still kept me on par with where I would be if I had them.

While a little brittle, the Wall decks I have seen can be quite nasty. If you don't have an answer, you may not win a challenge.

Agreed w/ Rings - I just built a Martell NW deck that is trouncing my other decks. It has huge potential I think. It has some deadly, some renown, some saving, and above all: Tons of cheap characters. I think they may be the most undercosted characters in the game right now. I mean, just look at Defenders of the North. Strength 8, which is huge, and if you're using all 3 agendas, they cost a whopping 4 gold. Combine that with other reducers and you have a deadly war-crest for a pittance, who can potentially pop into play at any moment with The Wall.

My deck also utilizes Dorne by calling out Night's Watch and reducing the cost of all of them by 1. It's pretty sick. Combined with Martell's card draw, it's gonna be close against most decks, save possibly for the FoW decks (which are unfortunately so popular).

Of course, the Defenders of the North are also a tricon, as is every other one. The other piece of the puzzle is Stonesnake - he can stealth the stealthy, making him quite strong actually. The deck just synergizes incredibly well.

Sorry, didn't see the edit button. In addition to all the above awesomeness, the deck is just danged fun to play. It's weird having every character (almost) in the deck have every icon. The only one that doesn't is the Dornish Paramour.

My only problem with the Nights Watch is that they aren't as good as the wildlings for one reason. The stealth agenda. That makes the wildlings ten times better.

I guess I see your point, perhaps they're not total garbage. Still, I have to say I've been underwhelmed with this series of chapter packs. King's Landing was so amazing, and this set just seems less exciting by comparison. The final chapter pack looks cool, but most of the in-house stuff throughout the CP hasn't been all that great...

I just made a Stark NW deck and is funny but too long matches with this... maybe in a tournament I risk to hae all tie for time :-)

jmccarthy said:

People thought the King's Landing cycle (and shadows in general) were underwhelming too until the entire cycle had been available for a while. People thought King's Landing itself was crappy draw, that shadows were clunky, and at first most people just saw shadows as Valar protection. But after a while, everyone started discovering the synergy, and after seeing all the City plots in action, they started becoming popular. But it took time.

The same is going to hold true for the Defenders cycle. My current testing shows that there are some amazing decks centered around the cards in this cycle, but since the final chapter pack is just now hitting stores, most people haven't used them. And it has multiple keystone cards in it. Mel for Bara Rush, The Wall and Coldhands for NW, Val for wildling draw, the final Wildling Agenda (the best in my opinion). You might be surprised at the Gencon results

After others 2 play with NW Stark... amazing... stark in control... but 1,5 h per game :-(

I don't know how could I win in tournaments with time limit :-(

Stanton - while I do agree that giving stealth is strong, remember if the all is out, stealth is a little irrelevent.

Gualdo - I am very worried about time limits right now. I wish the agendas could have been balanced using something other than extra power (which seems to be the standby negative in most agendas). But, I do understand how hard it is to balance agendas (especially multiple ones!).

*if the WALL is out" it should read above...jeez

time problem is not related to the multiple agendas (i run only one), but to the fact that "The wall" based deck is very slow (at least mine). I win initiative. I give my opponent initiative. He pass. I make my challenges (but my best is in defense). So I make only 1-2 power per round :-)

The Wall, new Winterfell, Storm dancer, new Catelyn, blackfish... all cards that tell to my opponent "not attack"... moreover if he knows i have a NW army in my hand...

A few questions to those that have been playing decks built around the Wall, and running NW in general:

Isn't 4 gold a pretty hefty investment for something that can be quite easily shattered with any location control? Do you run some kind of protection to counter this? (Like Frozen Solid to nullify your opponent's Frozen Solid or Veteran Marauder, some search to get multiple copies etc.)

Have you been running NW out of Stark or Baratheon? Any special quirks? Is the slowness of NW builds an issue of running them out of Stark?

...not that my Wall is still in the post or anything... =)

Gotta agree with Wildlings probably being the easier one to build and splash of these two factions, with some really good uniques to boot. (Personally I've started to groan every time I see Orell on the table..) Then again, that doesn't mean that some kind of dedicated NW deck couldn't be much stronger if built right.

WWDrakey said:

There is really only three reliable forms of dealing with the Wall....Frozen Solid, Climbing Spikes and Mance Rayder. Condemned by the Counsel and Price of War are not reliable because it is so hard to win a challenge against a Wall deck. And the 4 gold is NOTHING! Keep in mind, the very first turn you put the Wall into play, you will get to bring in a NW character as a defender in each challenge. So lets say you pop in the 8 STR army as a defender in the MIL challenge, and Old Bear in the INT challenge and Jon Snow in the Power challenge...you've just temporarily brought into play 15 gold worth of characters, and there is a good chance you won most, if not all of those challenges on defense. Now obviously it isn't always that drastic if you only have a Steward of the Watch and Stonesnake and Samwell in hand to "pop-in", but I think you see the potential here. But yes, you do have to pack "protection" for your wall. If you are running Stark, hold on to your frozen solids to use defensively. But other houses have answers too...Targ has a ton, Bara and Martell have anti-condition attachment characters, Greyjoy has Wintertime Marauders and Scurvy Cutthroat. There are options.

On a related note, does anyone actually use the new Jon Snow? I know the Core Set version is amazing, and combo's well with Jon's new sword, but couldn't the new version of Jon been at least worth considering? Or neutral?

Dobbler said:

Well... Pyromancer's Apprentice is a forth, and at least our local GJ-Wildling has stealth on almost all characters and high STR (wildlings are dirt cheap and GJ has plenty of STR pumps), so they can pretty easily force the one challenge win to get Price of War or Veteran Marauder triggered (even with the NW army in hand). But yeah, I can see that challenge -based location control isn't that much of an issue. Again, I get the feeling that running Nightmares wouldn't be a bad idea in any deck...

Dobbler said:

Yeah, I can see that the Wall really dominates the game if you can keep it up! (As well it should, thematically ) But I'm thinking some protection is in order. Oh, and on the other side Aegon's Hill might not be a bad idea to run in Targ now...

jmccarthy said:

I don't really know about Jon, but I think the new Benjen would be a must with the Wall... stand a character every time you're attacked? Yes please!

The new Jon Snow is decent to use in a NW Stark deck if you have the event die by the sword. If you don't have any of your other war characters in stark to attack with (the tully knights or edmure), you can always use Jon Snow to trigger that event (which I find to be a very good card).

The card Defenders of the North was simply made to be used with the Wall. Once you have the Wall out, it will be extremely hard to win challenges vs a defensive player.

I think without a doubt the Wall works best in a Stark deck - and that's because Stark has many ways to enhance your defense and ensure you don't win any challenges. Also, stark has cards that give you benefits from not losing challenges (power, draw).

Should we worry about Men With No King in regards to the Wall? I think this card could make a resurgence if people start using more neutral cards.

Wintertime Marauders cannot affect the wall, because it is unique. And I've already learned that pyromancer's apprentice hurts this deck.

Still haven't figured the best type of NW deck to build yet, but I am working on one.

I keep wondering if the Men with No King deck is going to really make an effect at some point. There are builds out there that could absolutely be crippled by it - and isn't Val just going to get snatched every game......

I've built several MwnK decks lately, and they simply haven't been as good as I hoped. Its essentially a combo deck...you need MwnK on the table (4 gold investment), you need a reinforcement in hand (another 2-3 gold required to trigger MwnK), and you need a high quality neutral or OOH card to steal. In order to make the combo reliable you have to play Summoning Season to go get MwnK, and you need to play 9-12 reinforcements. By the time you've done all that, you have really watered down you deck against anything that isn't relying on neutrals and OOH stuff. And don't forget MwnK can still be canceled by some of the common cancel effects (He Calls it Thinking, Seasick, To Be A Kraken)

Its always a big swing when you get to steal a high quality card (The Wall, WIldling Horde, etc, etc), but it just isn't a reliable tournament strategy.

tested the Stark/NW deck during pauses of official tournament in the WE...

...it seems very very strong but I have to find a way to improve speed in it... luckly the best way to deal with it is already in place... not condemend by the council because with this deck is impossible to loose a intrigue: Catelyn, NW army.

The way is scouting vessel... everytime I play grey I thank Drowned God for that :-)