Hey Gents.

Has anyone allowed the use of Rogue Trader characters in a Dark Heresy game?

Does it unbalance the game?

What about the new Deathwatch?

Would that be alright or is it just too much?

You'd need to fiddle with the Dark Heresy characters to fit having Rogue Trader and Deathwatch characters in it. Probably give them +5 in each characteristic and then give them a few additional skills, and it'd balance out with the Rogue Trader characters. Not so sure about Deathwatch, given how much more powerful Space Marines are. We'll likely have to wait until the rulebook is released to see the character creation process to see what modifications would be needed to make them all work well together.

You shouldn't need to modify the characters in any way at all.

There is a section in RT, and i'm presuming DW will have a similar one, explaining how to port characters from DH into RT and vice versa. Basically, an RT character starts with 5k xp, so a 5k xp DH character should be balanced, and i'm presuming a 5k xp DW character too.

Acolytes may seem weaker than RT characters, but they have the backing of the inquisition. Conversely, RT characters WILL seem weaker than space marines, but have the backing of their small empire.

It's this interplay of personal power versus backing that should balance characters from across the systems.

That said, FFG decided to go and shake things up by introducing things like Universal talents which allow a saving on XP expenditure, so if you twink out a character too much, the XP balance doesn't work. Ultimately it comes down to your players being sensible and not munchkins, while relying more on the fluff and background of the character options than going for the most XP efficient builds.

You probably can't expect balance in every aspect. A Space Marine is a combat monster and it would take a very high ranked Acolyte to get even close to even a vey young Marine (as long as they stay true to the fluff that is). On the other hand an Acolyte has the Inquisition behind him, he can also go under cover, investigate rumors and cults and lie, steal or charm his way into other groups. A Space marine can't do that, being a giant combat monster does have its drawbacks as soon as your are not actually in combat.

So each specific part of the game would probably be unbalanced in favor of someone (at least with DW mixed in), but all in all it should even out as long as the campaign in itself is balanced. This is not that different from just having DH characters that are specialized in different things. If you players are fine with this then go for it.

You would probably see more DH/DW crossover than anything else, since both are based around similar styles of play, though DW will probably be much more obviously combat focused. I'll be honest and say while i have the Rogue Trader books, i've never used them, its the one park of the Dark Millenium that neither me, nor my players are at all interested in. If we want to run a tramp freighter, we'll play Star Wars or Traveler.

talsine said:

Well said, and i think that sums up why RT isn't as popular as DH has been, or DW will be. Hopefully the upcoming expansion for it will throw open a load more doors, but the game i feel needs a shift of focus from being a giant sandbox to better ways for the GM to give 'quests' and control the narrative.

Kasatka said:

Into the Storm will help in this regard, as will other supplements further down the line, and the Grand Endeavour that defines Lure of the Expanse shows one way for a GM to orchestrate and structure a big campaign narrative.

One thing I've found is that a lot of people tend not to take to Rogue Trader as naturally as they do to Dark Heresy. Dark Heresy has an easy initial hook that gets people interested from the outset, allowing people to get a good feel for the context of the game without necessarily playing... Rogue Trader doesn't, at least not to the same extent, and it seems to take actually playing the game to really get a feel for the sense of power and freedom for many people. The relative quantity of background in each core rulebook doesn't help matters - Dark Heresy presents a somewhat closer look at a known quantity (the Imperium and the Inquisition in particular), while Rogue Trader goes beyond the known and established spaces, and doesn't really have the space to properly define what's out there given the two extra chapters of rules it needed compared to Dark Heresy (starships and Navigators, plus the extra stuff about profit and endeavours).

This is how to sell Rogue Trader: Release Racial Codexes, ala IH, give stat lines for acouple of racial varients, and then a couple of Class paths, make it the sand box game, and sell DH/DW as Imperium of Man Setting books. Or not, but RT is about the only one where you will be able to play Xeno's, so i would take advantage of it, and they are to some extent with the Kroot Merc and the Orc Freebooter

talsine i like your idea that would definetely get my attention. But it does bring up some good points so far we have only seen things from the imperium's perspective why not the Eldar or the Orks hell i would check it to see things from the Tau's perspective.

It would work fine if the GM and the players understood the differences between the characters. RT characters tend to be much more naturally talented and experienced characters (higher stats), more well rounded, and a bit larger than life. They are all about organization, contacts, and far reaching power.

DH characters are typically weaker, but more skilled in areas of expertise (once they reach rank 5 at least). They are better at infiltrating, getting information, and dealing with most people.

DeathWatch characters...well when in comes to combat no other character can begin to match them. Outside of combat though, the other characters are much more skilled and influential.

I could see a really fun high level game using all three game systems, if they specialized properly. A Rogue Trader contracted by an inquisitor, shipping people around, handling political situations, supplying the group, and 'gently' applying political pressure, and DH characters performing missions and investigations and rooting out heresy, with the DW characters being there for when things are finally rooted out and it is time to purge.

Though I think I would give the players at least two characters apiece so that they could stay involved.

On the discussion of RT...ok, first of all it is NOTHING like running a tramp freightor in starwars, and I LOVE playing tramp freightors in star wars. Your running a multi kilometer ship with tens of thousands of crewmen, weapons that can ravage worls, and more influence and resources than most planets can muster.

Which is why I think it is less run. It is HARD, both on the players and the GM. Most GMs have a hard time with mid level D&D, let alone dealing with characters that can ravage worlds. But when you get the proper group, and if you can GM it...oh it is a sweet experience.

Adding my 2 coppers worth.

As I understand things, DH characters have to be rank 5 to be equivalent to RT & rank 9 to be equivalent to DW. I'm not sure of the RT level to be equivalent to DW, but thinking probably rank 5.

So if you're looking to run a campaign with all 3, at the lowest starting levels, DH rank 9, RT rank 5 & DW rank 1.

MILLANDSON said:

"Amen, brother!"

It's DW Rank 1, Rogue Trader Rank 4, DH Rank 9/Ascencion Rank 1