You know how there are four small dots under each attribute on Rogue Trader character sheets representing purchased advances? Well on the character sheets for the various characters in Final Sanction there are SIX such dots. Granted this may only be decorative since the rules for attribute advances may be different AND this is only a demo....But still consider that's an additional 10% above non-astartes. The "unnatural" bonuses are going to get pretty high.

Exoviper said:

Actually, I would like to point out that in the Dark Heresy book Ascension, they include another two advances for each, for a grand total of 6.

I think that would probably put them upwards to 80 or 85 maxed out, with unnatural characteristics thats up to bonues of 16, maybe 18 if someone makes it to a 90.

Wowza!

Peacekeeper_b said:

Only one level of Unnatural Attributes? Did not Ascension have multiple levels? One could hardly imagine that the Imperium's uber-warriors would fare less well than mere humans...

Kage

Given the novels description of the damage that some uber Space Marines can do with a single punch (Marneus Calgar comes to mind) I would imagine that x3 would at least be an option in the advance schemes... possibly even higher.

I can see certain careers getting Unnaturals in the X3 or X4 brackets, probably no higher.

But yeah, based on what we've seen already, I think max starting stat is probably going to be in the 50's, so we're looking at 80's for the top. None too shabby.

BYE

Kage2020 said:

Yeah, but Ascension is crap. Mostly. At least with its use of Unnatural Characteristics.

I think X3 for S or T is pushing it and only for exceptional marines (Calgar and such) while X4 should be limited to Primarchs and X5+ for the Empra his-self!

Peacekeeper_b said:

Personally, I don't think that we could even measure the Primarchs let alone the Emperor in this game system. Might have to go to GURPS to find the proper damage type (Massive).

I think that you can, it would just end up with little problems showing up. For example, they might have Unnatural Toughness at the x4 level as mentioned, but with T in the 80 range. I forget whether Unnatural Toughess doubles it each time or merely multiplies the original. Either way you're dealing with the situation that while you might have their strength at about the right level (126 the strength of an "average" person has been suggested!) you might also be dealing with a situation where the individual is just immune to... well... everything. Imagine a Toughness Bonus of 32 or 64, or even 128...

And, of course, you're having to deal with "power creep" on the interpretation and, of course, the nature of the interpretation of the interpreter (errr.). For example, do you put the Emperor at the top of the league merely because he is the Emperor, or do you work with the idea that he was a tad more mortal than he has subsequently been made out to be?

Either way you don't need a new system. It might be more elegant in another system, and the implications might not be great, but it's not necessary.

Kage

Peacekeeper_b said:

The six "dots" were one of the first things I noticed.

We won't know how high you can go till the character gen is released. Assuming the pre-mades are "good" (higher than average rolls), the stats are likely 25 + 2D10, which rules out 90's (bar other factors). A well rolled melee character could kick ass at high levels... think about strength 80 with a powerfist! (2D10 + 26 damage, Pen 9). Add in multiple attacks and the guy could be putting out >100 damage per round.

Hello Mr Broodlord, *whack* *whack* *CRUNCH*

Kage2020 said:

It multiplies the original... generally.

So 5 SB (unnatural strength x2) = 10

5 SB (US x3) = 15

etc.