Hey, I'm new to forums but I've been gm'ing dark heresy for a few years. I'll be running the final sanction adventure tomorrow and I have a problem.

As you know unnatural trait doubles the score of any ability. Until now I thought that this augmented stat only works in opposed checks. I figured out that I was wrong when reading the forums that A power fist does 2D10+14 damage. I checked out that it is in sync with the rules in the other books such as a nob with a choppa.

So does this work in toughness too? If so a space marine is neigh impenetrable short of (really) heavy weaponry.

What about eldar? I was thinking to put a few to spice up the adventure. But every one of them have 40+ agility with unnatural trait. If it works the same way they dodge every first shot in a combat round.

I would appreciate if someone could illuminate me on this subject.

AFAIK, the Unnatural Attribute doubles the bonus, not the statistic. Thus, Toughness of 47 (Toughness Bonus of 4) with Unnatural Toughness is still a Toughness of 47, but the Toughness Bonus is now doubled to 8. And, yes, it does make Space Marines rather tough cookies.

The elegance of the Unnatural Attributes has frequently been questioned.

Kage

Kage2020 said:

Correct.

However, I think that you still use the bonus value to determine the number of successes that you achieve. For instance:

Dodge: 40 Agility: Unnatural bonus x2 for 8

Rolls 20

7 degrees of success.

Dodge: 40 Agility: Unnatural bonus x2 for 8

Rolls 56

Fails.

Thanks guys, I got the idea now.

Though I pity for all those orks died in the hands of fellow acolytes.

They would have got their "I killed a PC" t-shirt.

@SpawnOfChaos

No, that's not how it works either.

Ahem.

An Unnatural Attribute has three effects, four if you count one from the Inquisitor's Handbook that wasn't reprinted in Rogue Trader.

I) For all purposes, an Unnatural Attribute's bonus is multiplied according to the multiplier. Thus, a Space Marine with 46 Strength and Toughness dishes out and soaks as if he had SB and TB 8.

II) In opposed tests, you get a bonus degree of success for each Unnatural multiplier. Thus, if you grapple with a creature with Unnatural Strength *3, it gets two DoS just for its Unnatural strength before any dice are rolled

III) In opposed tests, if the test results in a draw between the participants, the one with the higher multiplier wins. In said grapple, if you roll 3 DoS and the creature rolls 1 and adds its two DoS, you'd normally draw, but since the creature has the higher multiplier, it wins.

IV) In non-opposed tests, every additional multiplier lowers the test difficulty by -10. Thus, a sage with Unnatural Intelligence *3 would get a +20 bonus to ever lore roll.

Personally, I'd suggest using the fourth rule - people being better only when someone opposes them sounds rather strange.

Cifer said:

What if the person fails the roll?

Example:

Strength 47 Unnatural x 2 rolls 52, technically failing the test by 1 degree... does this somehow "break even" and they didn't actually fail?

I like using the 4th rule unless for some reason it just doesn't seem "right" for the Unnatural Characteristic to help with the Test in question.

I have tended to use Unnatural Traits as a 'fiat GM' excuse as well. For example, if a guy with unnatural strength is performing a strength related feat (such as bending a metal rod) I don't call for a test unless it's something that seems like he would struggle with. So what a normal guy with Str 50 might have to roll for, a guy with str 50 (x2) wouldn't even have to roll.

I just use it as a bonus to the stat for all tests based on it. Unnatural X2 doubles the Characteristic Bonus and adds +10 for tests.

In the end it is slightly more beneficial then the bonus success degree on a successful test but in general gets the same results.

Cifer said:

Where does this application of Unnatural Characteristic appear?

An Unnatural Attribute has three effects, four if you count one from the Inquisitor's Handbook that wasn't reprinted in Rogue Trader.

Do we think such a rule was meant to be carried over and forgotten or cut intentionally?

It was likely cut intentionally.

You'll find that quite a number of the rules written by Black Industries have not been carried over in subsequent FFG publications, and even some of the 'errata' is just FFG changing things that they didn't like about the original BI rules.

BYE

Even with unnatural traits, in my game the assault marine got opened up with only a couple of good rolls from a genestealer 1on1. They are certainly not invincible.

Tam

H.B.M.C. said:

Is this likely to be the cause of the change to the "Full Auto" rules (ie, a hit for every degree of success, rather than every two)? Frankly I felt that change just made Full Auto a bit too powerful. Getting a hit for every DoS on top of a significant bonus to hit just seemed a bit much.

And was the change from a maximum +/-30 to a maximum +/-60 a FFG change as well? Personally thought that was unecessary as well... +/- 30 already pretty much doubles the chance of a success of an average staring character or makes the success pretty slim. With higher level characters it will might half their chance of success, or make make success a pretty much dead cert. If you make it +/-60 you really have got to the point where it should be an automatic success or failure.

The one thing that I have still not worked out though is whether you are meant to count the skill mastery bonuses and the test difficulty bonuses as normal bonuses, ie they count for the +/- 60, or do they set the basic figure you work from and it can go +/- 60 from that figure.

It was always an extra hit per DoS, the one/two instances where it said otherwise were typos.

As for the "maximum modifiers", that doesn't include the skills, only external modifiers.

borithan said:

No, that was tested during Dark Heresy's development, but there was a screw-up with the final version sent to the printers.

SpawnoChaos said:

Inquisitor's Handbook ; page 226:

• "During Opposed Characteristic Tests, where success is achieved , the Unnatural multiplier is added to the degrees of success.

Whether that's how it's going to play out when we get the final rules for Deathwatch into our grubby hands remains to be seen. However, it's a logical progression of the rules.

-=Brother Praetus=-