I was wondering, how does cover relate to primitive weapons. Is all (in DH-book desctibed) cover non-primitive and thus AP counts double?

Or is light wood also primitive and the rest not,

or should primitve/non primitive issue be completely ignored with cover?

I'd assume it falls to the GM to determine what cover is or isn't primitive.

I consider cover as a separate entity from armor and treat all weapons AP the same against it.

I know it's more accurate the way you describe, but I don't have the time to sit down and define all possible types of cover and whether they are primitive or not.

If it doesn't have something saying that it's primitive, it isn't.

it indeed doesn't state anywhere in the book that the cover is primitive and flak, rockrete and plasteel are sure as hell nog primitive armour. Arguably the first set (light wood etc) might be.

So does that mean that all (standard) cover counts double against primitive weapons? Like wooden arrows?

But that would require another stat block.

Well... considering every hit that inflicts more damage on the cover than it has AP lowers the cover's AP by 1... how do you feel about 20 arrows hitting a rockcrete barrier and obliterating it?

hmm bow does 1d10+0 so (save the fury) max 10 damage. Rockrete = AP 16, lets assume an archer with BS 50%. Means: BS:50% x 10% to roll a 10 x 50% to confirm EF x 40% > 16 damage = exactly 1%. So it takes 100 arrows of good archers to take 1 AP of a rockrete block. And thus 1600 Arrows!! to obliterate it.

Flakbord, ice, heavy wood and sandbags however are AP8. Meaning that roughly 1 in 5 arrows that HIT it would damage given a bs of 50% which is pretty high that would make it 1 out of 10, so it would take 100 shots to obliterate it.

Lets bring in the Mythbusters to see whether it comes down or not!

In conclusion I think to speed up combat you may ignore the primitive rule cause the battle is already fought before either cover is comprimised.

Shouldn't the chance of getting through the barrier increase as the AP is lowered?

Anyway, I don't see any point in bothering with primitive and non primitive covers. I would just count the damage directly against it, ignoring the primitive rule. It's easier that way and I don't recall any rule that actually states are the primitive quality has any effect when it comes to hitting cover.

wolph42 said:

NO?

first of all you have a 50% chance with a d10 to roll 6damage or more

considering a rockcrete ap16 and a BS of 50% (with range mods aim mods etc allready in it) and 1d10+0 pen 0 (which is a rather lame weapon) and not considering double ap aggainst an arrow (because normally it's primitive)

AP 16 50% to hit 10% for fury and 50% confirm fury and 50% to roll a 6 or more on the second damage roll => X*50%*10%*50%*50%=1;X=80 arrows in the average to do 16 dmg

50%*10%*50% remains ro every ap>10 shot so we shorten it to 2.5%

AP15 => X*2.5%*60%=1 (because we need only a 4+ on second damage roll) X~=67 arrows in average to do 15 dmg

AP14=> X*2.5%*70%=1; X~=58 arrows to do 14 damage

AP13=>X*2.5%*70%=1;X=50 arrows in average for 13 damage

AP12=>X*2.5%*80%=1;X~=45 arrows on average for 12 damage

AP11=>x*2,5%*100%(because we always roll a minimum of 1 on damage) X=40 arrows on average for a righteous fury

AP10 now we dont even need righteous fura at all anymore => 50*(hit chance) *10%(10 damage)==> 20 arrows on average to deal 10 damage

AP9 =>50%*20% ==> 10 arrows to deal 9 damage

AP8 =>50%*30* ==> ~7 arrows to deal 8 damage

AP7 => 50%*40% ==> 5 arrows for 7 damage

AP6 => 50%*50% ==> 4 arrows for 6 damage

AP5 => 50%*60% ==> 4 arrows for 5 damage

AP4 => 50%*70% ==> 3 arrows for 4 damage

AP3 => 50%*80% ==> 3 arrows

AP2 => 50%*90% ==> 3 arrows

AP1 => 50% to hit no need to roll damage ==> 2 arrows on average

summing it up you get to 67+58+50+45+40+20+10+7+5+4+4+3+3+3+2=321 arrows to completely dematerialize a rockcrete cover and you are probably going to do damage even sooner...

having a composite bow and mighty shot you deal a d10+4 damage with an accurate basic weapon (bonus damage!) and probably gets the work done in less then 100 arrows

and of course this reminds me of last round I played... an enemy right behind a 16AP wall I let the psyker tell me in detail where he exactly was standing and then hit him through the wall with my eviscerator (pen 5 and the trooper ahd 4 armor himself) I have a SB of 4 and rolled a 7 for damage so hey I managed to cut down the AP to 15 and did 5 damage to my enemy in the same turn

I had realised already that my assumption was wrong (somewhere around 4 o clock in the mornig when I woke up... thinking **** stupid mistake). Then I forgot about it again. So yes you're right AP decreases per hit and thus the chance to break it again becomes higher.

However, im pretty sure that you need to do MORE damage then the AP. I believe it states somehting in line of, 'damage done in excess of the AP value...' (unless thats corrected in the errata). So initially 17 not 16. But the difference is 100 arrows making it 421, which really doesnt make any difference to my conclusion: the battle is long over before you reach that point so why bother to use it.

<homer voice> hmmm.... Eviscerator...nice</homer voice>