Ran into this last night. Need some help.

In a melee game, I attacked into a player in a military challenge in which I really wanted him to lose. He blocked with 1 blocker to stop the unopposed power. A 3rd player toll gated his character out of the battle, which effectively made the challenge unopposed. A 4th player with Knight commander used the knight commander ability to take the unopposed challenge at himself.

At this point, the challenge had been redirected to the Knight Commander due to it being unopposed. I had the crown regent. Am I allowed to use crown regent to redirect at this point? If so, Can I send the attack back to the original target?

Thanks.

Fieras said:

First, this was an illegal use of the Lord Commander title. You can only use the title to redirect the challenge to yourself when the original defender chooses not to declare any defenders. This means that the Lord Commander is used immediately within the "Assign Stealth/Declare Defenders" framework action window. In your situation, not only did the original defender choose to declare defenders, but the character was not removed until well after the "Declare Defenders" framework action window.

It is also worth noting that once the character was removed, the challenge still did not have an "unopposed" status. The challenge is not actually considered to be "unopposed" until the "Resolve Challenge" framework action window when the framework event checks to see if there is at least 1 defending character and a total defending STR greater than 1. This is why the rules explaining the Lord Commander title talk about being able to redirect when the original defender chooses not to declare characters in the challenge, not in terms of an "unopposed" challenge.

So your 4th player could not have used his title on the challenge as it had unfolded.

Fieras said:

This would be an illegal use of Crown Regent. The rules explaining Crown Regent say that the title can redirect a challenge after the attacker initiates his challenge. That's waaay back in the "Initiate Challenge" framework action window. You cannot wait for the original defender to declare and kneel defenders and then say "oh, wait, I think I'll attack him instead." Crown Regent can only be used immediately at the point of the challenge being initiated.

BTW: this means that because of the timing involved (Crown Regent redirecting immediately after attackers are declared, Lord Commander redirecting immediately after defenders are - not - declared), the Crown Regent can NEVER redirect a challenge that the Lord Commander decides to take himself.

And overall, as soon as you attacked and the original defender knelt a character to defend, the titles could play no role in redirecting that challenge.

Ktom, do you have a list of all of the phases on a challenge. 1a, 2a, 3a etc. I have seen you post it before, but I cannot find the thread.

The reason (in this case) I wanted to know is because I couldnt remember the order renown/unopposed/the effect of taste for blood were calculated.

Thanks for your assistance.

Fieras

1. Claim

2. Unopposed

3. Renown

4. Passives

5. Responses (Taste for Blood)

So if I need 3 power to win, and I have the new stark military agenda, and I attack someone with a renown character in a military challenge, I would effectively collect 2 from the agenda (during the claim phase?) and 1 from renown and win the game (ending it there) before taste for blood ever has the chance to trigger?

Thanks again.

Fieras said:

No. Taste for Blood and the Siege at Winterfell Agenda are both Responses. You'd get your 1 for Renown, and then the First Player would get the first Response. If that's the Stark player, you get the 2 power before they can trigger Taste for Blood. If the First Player is the Martell player, they get to trigger Taste for Blood before you can trigger the Agenda.

By first player, you mean in initiative?

After initiative is won, the player who is elected to go 'first' is considered 'the first player' for the round.

Fieras said:

I mean the person who was assigned to be First Player for the whole round by the person who won initiative in the plot phase. High initiative and First Player are not necessarily the same thing.