First, sorry for my poor english !

This week, two of the the biggest AGOT tournament in the world (as far I know) have taken place in Spain and France. 78 players were playing for the nationals of those two countries. Both tournaments were bigger than the world's. And both communities are growing fast. How many people do you think would come to a world championship in Europe ? more than 26 I suppose...

The question was asked many times this week at the french nationals: Is the AGOT event at the Gencon more than a US championship ? Aren't our nationals champions less glorious than Tzumainn, Dobbler and all the others worlds champions ? We all think there that the answer is no. We've got nothing against you guys, but we would be glad in Europe to have the opportunity to have a World champion that is not from the United States. I think, looking to the size of our communities", that it would be fair to have that chance.

So, I open the thread to discuss about the possibility to organize the world's in Europe every two years. Do you think It could be a good thing ? Do you think it is only possible ? My opinion is yes, what about yours ?

yes, of course

Other game make World in Europe, and the next year in States...

When we see 35 players in France, and 43 players in Spain, last week for their national... of course.

And don't forget the Italians, more than 20 players in their national. And maybe people in U.K. & a looot of people in Germany like we saw at the European's in Stahlbeck last year.

World's in Europe seems very logical.

Speaking as an American I can say in terms of pure player participation that the true "world's" already takes place in Europe. The European champion should have no less "glory" than their American counterparts and in some cases may even warrant more (due to the fact more competition to overcome). Granted, more doesn't always translate to "better", but still, I think European champions should have just as much claim to "world" champion status as the ones who win Gencon here.

I don't think everyone would be able to travel to participate in a European world's, just as I'm sure there are many Europeans who do not travel to the USA for our world's. In the end, I think it more accurate to call them "American Championship" and "European Championship", since "world" intrinsically implies participation from representatives around the world.

In the end, doesn't really matter to me. Just happy to see the game is so popular overseas and to hear that it continues to grow. My helm is off to all my European brothers and sisters who share my enjoyment of this great game. Honors to all your houses.

Well, it kind of matters in terms of actual prizes and the actual game itself. For example, the champions in Europe don't get to design any in-game cards, while the "World" champions in America do. In general, I've gathered that FFG gives very little to no support to our European counterparts. I understand that FFG is a small American company, but it would be cool for those on the other side of the Atlantic to receive more official support.

I guess one issue for FFG is that (I'm assuming) they have no representatives outside of the United States. This creates several problems; an example being that there would be no official FFG representative (i.e. Nate) at the "World" European Event.

I think the best thing to do is have FFG provide more official support for Europe.

I do agree that we should have a European Championships and a North American Championships

However, I don't think it is fair to compare LAST years Gencon's attendance to this year's Spanish and French attendance. Since last year's Gencon, the game has grown both here in the US and overseas greatly. We've had the release of two new expansion boxes and 1 1/2 chapter pack cycles. I think the attendance at Gencon in 2010 will be around the same as the Spanish nationals.

But like Fatmouse said, in the end FFG is going to hold the World Championships at a location that FFG can cost effectively have their employees present for the event.

FATMOUSE said:

The problem is, IMHO, that in Europe, (at least in France and Spain) that there´s another company that "manages" the game, (in this countries, Edge Entertaiment), and so it´s needed to have some understanding between them. If it´s difficoult to have one company trying to support a LCG game, trying to have 2, with all the stuff about rights, prizes, and so on, it´s almost impossible.

But maybe treat European Campionship as they do American/Worlds would be nice.

The tournaments in France and Spain were "only" nationals. If a tournament in Europe is officially called "World's", I'm pretty sure you'll see more than 80 (maybe 100, why not ?) players to this tournament. The name of the tournament is very important to move people. I'm asking for a chance to move each two years as many people as possible in Europe.

For the moment, there's the European championship each year. It's a great event and I bet that the 2010 event will be the biggest AGoT tournament ever seen. But I'm sure that if called "World's Championship", it could be biggest and give AGoT the stature it deserves and help all the communities in the world to grow even faster than actually.

"But like Fatmouse said, in the end FFG is going to hold the World Championships at a location that FFG can cost effectively have their employees present for the event."

Is it so difficult to have FFG sending Nate or another representant to an event like that ? I think it is easier than sending the nationals champions to the world's at GENCON. All the nationals champions here have their ticket to enter the GENCON in their prices. What a piece of a joke !

Arthur Lannister said:

Regional (or National) winners are not "sent" to Gencon by FFG. FFG only reimburses the cost of their Gencon badge IF they decide to go. There's a huge difference there.

Deathjester26 said:

And they don't even reimburse you with money. They reimburse with FFG merchandise. If your badge costs $50, then you can redeem $50 of FFG merchandise, which equates to probably about $25 in real money for FFG (retail price is always higher than the production price of a product). Additionally this reimbursement was almost certainly factored into the cost of the Regional/National kits, which I think was about $250.

There is a huge difference between Gen Con and a national or regional event. There are a LOT of people who go to Gen Con for other reasons and are relatively casual players who might otherwise play in a stand-alone tournament. I think actual sales within a country is a better indicator then head count at an event.

If international sales are strong then I agree Europe should be considered but a headcount alone doesnt necessarily mean there are better players at a particular event.

With that being said, I think FFG should reimburse national winners with a trip to Gen Con to make it more competitive.

If there are European players able to secure a flight to Gen con and need a cheap place to crash, I'll offer up my place. I'm loud, never bathe, smoke like a chimney, am ethnophobic, xenophobic and have only been convicted of theft three times and assault and battery twice. The murder charges have been dropped against me

just kidding

Yes, but Gencon host lot of tournament... Agot is hollow?

"If international sales are strong then I agree Europe should be considered but a headcount alone doesnt necessarily mean there are better players at a particular event"

International sales are a difficult parameter to evaluate the quantity of players in a given continent, let alone the quality. I've played in a lot of TCG's, and in all of them more players ment better players, but this isn't the issue at hand.

The fact is that I bought the better half of my cards from US web sites, so the "sales" went up in US, rather than in Europe (I live in Portugal). This is mainly due to the serious shortage of available chapter packs (at least that I can find at retail stores or in the internet). So, I bet many players did so, and you have less sells in Europe because of it...

BTW, can anyone point me to a site where ALL chapter packs are available? Thanks for any help!

tovra.pt said:

Tovra, have you tried ccgarmory.com for your card needs? I don't work for or represent them in any way, but I sometimes buy stuff from them myself.

tovra.pt said:

http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/showproducts.cfm?FullCat=107&step=1

maybe?

What is FFG thinking about this post?

The best price online I have found for new cards so far is Miniature Market

@tovra.pt: the situation is better now. but the lack of availability of cards here in europe (i am fromaustria) was the reason some years ago, why i founded my own store (look at my signiture). though i recommend to buy products at the local store, if possible!

Katagena said:

I'd also like to know... do Moderators/ Administrators speak in FFG's behalf often in the forums?

(Also, I didn't know there was an online store here - although, if I thought about it I could have reached that conclusion. Thanks!)

Official FFG representatives very rarely post on here, but important topics tend to find their way into discussions about the game. I'm sure this will get brought up by someone sometime in the very near future.

I do think expecting them to elevate a national or continental champion to world championship status when they have no representative or direct control over the tournament, is very realistic. I do think that you certainly have a sound argument about equal support (if only in the design a card portion) for the Euro-Champion.