Here are the other Place cards besides the Obstacles and Challenges previously seen. In particular, I want to make sure these are as comprehensible as possible. If something isn't clear, be sure to mention it either in this topic or through my email if you have it. As always, Right-Click and Save/View for an easier read of an enlargement.

The river landing is cool. Raft's seem to never get used when we play. This card could allow easier removal of those pesky followers if you had one or more.

I love the wishing well, but thinking over it 2 dice would be much more in line with random nature of the game. Especially if you have a gold overwhelmed game with all expansions. Throwing 6 gold at a 2 dice roll which ends up 1 + 1 would be fairer. Throwing a few gold on a D6 roll almost guarantees you a great result.

Fated cove is also a really good card. Gives the chance to regain fate, or an object. Also makes a character think which is important. Rooting through the deck for an object, or taking that last fate token. Maybe a bit of a reword could help if someone rooted through the deck and saw no items then chose to try take a fate. Here goes.

Emmisaries of the Alignments once fought a great battle here. Place 3 fate on this space. Any character visiting this space must choose, Take one fate, or donate one fate. Donaters may look through the first ten cards of the discard pile and take the first object or magic object if any.

Or something along those lines.

Sacred grove is cool. I'd be a bit more harsh for the Evils and Goods landing there and make them pay 2 gold per life instead of 1 (objects are still good to give for lives). Makes the square a bit less lucrative to those not neutral.

As always just trying to give feedback for the game balance. Good stuff!

danjr said:

Some off forum comments are similar. The problem with 2D6 is needing to keep that low roll as dangerous. Rolling a 1 on D6 is 16.7% chance; rolling 2 on 2D6 is 2.78% chance. If I remember my probabilities correctly, rolling 2 through 4 on 2D6 totals to 16.7%, so maybe that would be the low end "toading" for a 2D6 roll. Then perhaps eliminate the loss of gold bonus on the low roll? Maybe with enough gold dropped in the Well, one should be able to avoid being toaded.

But I don't want to turn the well in another freebie factory... like the Temple. Perhaps on the low end of the table there might be other lesser bad results? Then there is needing to fit all the results on one card. Before I take a crack at a 2D6 approach, do you have ideas on how results of a 2D6 table would look to you? Maybe I can meld that with some other suggestions to find something generally appealing. The Wishing Well is actually a new card for ITB 2.0, replacing another one that just wasn't working.

danjr said:

I see where you're going, but "donating" (if I'm following you) would keep the Cove around longer than its 3 Fate to be taken. I'm not sure having accesses to the discard pile for a longer time is a good idea. But I can see the problem of someone looking through the discards before deciding, and then changing their mind. Of course this all depends on if they remember what's been discarded in order to take a chance. But it is appealing to force a choice BEFORE anyone starts digging through discards.

danjr said:

You've actually hit upon a harsh debate among my crew and test groups. Some want what you suggest as as well. Everyone so far has liked the one hidden goal of ITB: turn Neutral into something more than the alignment of no alignment. Playing characters of Neutral (or Balance, when we play a 4 way alignment system) is a big thing for some in my group.

Okay, here are a couple of revisions for further critique. I'll hold off on the Wishing Well until I hear back from you and can mix your further response with that of others thinking along a similar line.

Sacred Grove seems perfect, absolutely love it.

Fated Cove

I was under the impression that the card allowed you to either place a fate on the card and look, or just take a fate. Kind of like a take a penny leave a penny.

That was the thought I got upon first reading.

A simple chart for the Wishing Well could be something like

2 Toad

3-4 Lose 1 fate or 1 life or 1 gold

5-6 lose all spells

7-8 nothing

9-10 Gain 1 fate or 1 life or 1 gold

11-12 Gain 1 spell (or full complement of spells) Seeing as the 5-6 results takes all spells

12+ gain 1 Strength or 1 Craft.

Still weighted evenly for random dice rolls, and yet a heavy donation of gold will still not ensure the best result. A donation of 6 gold could still get you a nothing result. Even spending 12 gold would be more expensive than using the academy for attribute gains. A good way to take some gold out of the game or make it somewhat useful.

A funny thing would be seeing someone spend a bunch of gold, to get a result of gaining 1 gold.

danjr said:

Yeah, I think that one's settled. Someone else mentioned that since the Neutrals get to pick either the Chapel or Graveyard table, the G/E should get to heal or replenish.

The Fated Cove indeed should be a discard of a Fate. I've always considered Fate something personal that is not transferrable to others. Otherwise it becomes even less "fate" than it already is by the game's mechanics. Now, let me try a table for the Wishing Well that combines your notions with those of others... and then see if it will all fit one card. Tell me if this is closer to acceptable.

Yup I think that is a winner.

I was thinking 2 and a 3 for the Toad is kinda harsh. Then again most people would throw at least one gold to really reduce that happening.

1 on D6 is 16.7% chance. 2 & 3 on 2D6 is only about 8.33%, so half as dangerous as the old card. And with 1G thrown down the well to give a shot at the optimum 13 roll, the chance of being toaded goes down to 2.7% chance. I think that's fair for a gold.

I should have some other new cards up for a final peek in the next 24-48 hours.