This was brought up in the most Balerion preview card article this week, and i'm still confused about this...

"While participating in a challenge, attached character gets +6 STR and gains the Dragon trait."

the way i read this it seems the the charcter gains +6 str and Dragon trait only during challenges. In the comments of the preview article, it was said that this was poorly worded, and it gains the Dragon trait independent of the conditional +6 str...

i look in the FAQ, and didn't see any clarification... so, which is the actual function of the card, and if the wording is indeed incorrect, is there an official source for the correct wording?

Thanks!

eygji said:

The grammar seems pretty unambiguous to me: the attached character only gains the dragon trait while participating in a challenge.

i thought so too.

but this article, and discussion had me questioning: http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1436

Hmm, well, they've had quite a few funny statements in card of the week (eg Frozen Solid being good against Bear Island (despite the whole non-Stark thing), Old Nan comboing with Traitorous Crow (it doesn't), Kingdom of Shadows giving multiple stands) so I wouldn't be surprised if they made another clerical error here.

Let me try an unlikely but possible(I think?) scenario:

At the beginning of Marshaling Phase I have 1 gold and use it to bring out Shadow Politics. I count 10 gold for marshaling and for my first action I declare an intrigue challenge kneeling Danny with a Blood of the Dragon attached. Because she is participating in a challenge, she is now a Dragon. In the action window after declare attackers, I use Distinct Mastery to stand Danny. Then in the same action window, for my next action, I marshal Balerion for 10 gold. Dany is still participating in the challenge so she doesn't kneel. Unless I don't understand the inner framework of a Shadow Politics intrigue challenge, I think this is a possibility. Is it?

uhm...why not just marshall the dragon and use distinct mastery in the challenge phase?

Hahah, I love these kinds of logic knots with the rules. I don't see any problem rules wise. I agree with Lars though that I don't see a compelling reason to stand Dany mid-challenge before playing Balerion.

Lars said:

I'm playing Martell and I saw a Red Vengence last round when I triggered Shadows Selmy and I don't want to lose the Distinct Mastery

(if I get to make up the situation I get to make up ANY situation I want )

edit: I agree it is far-fetched. I was just trying to come up with a situation where Blood of the Dragon actually helps when Balerion is marshaled.

Egg said:

I'm playing Martell and I saw a Red Vengence last round when I triggered Shadows Selmy and I don't want to lose the Distinct Mastery

(if I get to make up the situation I get to make up ANY situation I want )

Yeah, but when you play Balerion, you're going to kneel out all their characters and locations, not leaving them with the 2 standing influence (a single Chambers attached to the House Card being the only influence not knelt by the dragon) to pay for Red Vengeance. Still probably better to save the Distinct Mastery and use it on any crested character after Balerion is played.

But yes, you found a possible scenario in which Blood of the Dragon would protect from Balerion.

ktom said:

Egg said:

I'm playing Martell and I saw a Red Vengence last round when I triggered Shadows Selmy and I don't want to lose the Distinct Mastery

(if I get to make up the situation I get to make up ANY situation I want )

Yeah, but when you play Balerion, you're going to kneel out all their characters and locations, not leaving them with the 2 standing influence (a single Chambers attached to the House Card being the only influence not knelt by the dragon) to pay for Red Vengeance. Still probably better to save the Distinct Mastery and use it on any crested character after Balerion is played.

But yes, you found a possible scenario in which Blood of the Dragon would protect from Balerion.

!!!

They are playing another Chambers OOH then...(if this doesn't work, I give up)

Umm, maybe I'm missing something, but how is Balerion being marshalled during the challenges phase? I get the "use Distinct Mastery after Balerion has been marshalled" but not the other way around

FATMOUSE said:

Egg said:

Thanks, somehow missed that. Guess you would also have to make sure you had Planning Ahead revealed last round

Egg said:

They could also marshal a Dornish Paramour after you play Balerion. We are after all still in the marshalling phase after this intrigue challenge.

schrecklich said:

Actually, in the scenario given, that couldn't happen. After starting the challenge with Shadow Politics while you are the active player in Marshaling, the order or Marshaling changes a little. Passing on actions consecutively takes you to the next framework for challenge resolution, not to the next framework for the Marshaling phase (which would change the active player for Marshaling).

Said more precisely, the same player will remain the Marshaling "active player" through the entire intrigue challenge granted by Shadow Politics during the Marshaling phase. We presume that is the Targ player in this scenario because they are playing Balerion during the challenge. So the Martell player will not be able to Marshal a Dornish Paramour (or other new influence provider) before the resolution of the challenge because they will not become "active player" (and legally able to play the new card) in time.

ktom said:

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood what Egg was saying and thought he was worried about Red Vengeance during the challenges phase (after the Martell player get a chance to marshall a paramour).

Would a standing character with blood of the dragon participate in dominance? Is dominance phase considered a challenge?

snaggrriss said:

What makes you think so? Challenge in this game is when character(s) is attacking against any opponent in one of three challenge types (military, intrigue or power). Have you read rulebook?

Rogue30 said:

No one "participates" in Dominance. Standing STR is simply counted and compared. It is not a challenge. It's a completely different phase from "Challenges."

A standing character with Blood of the Dragon would be counted in Dominance, the same as any other character. But only at the usual STR. Since it is impossible for the character to be participating in a challenge when Dominance is counted, the attachment will not add anything to its STR.