This means: Does an acolyte need only 100 XP to advance to rank 2? Or are the 400xp "background xp" and does the count start at 0 again for the purpose of rank advancement?

Thanks!

By RAW, they count towards rank 2 if you don't spend them on a background package - though personally, I'd let them count either way. Considering the rank1 advancements are rather bland, I wouldn't want my players to spend any more time on them than necessary. I mean, a guardsman without Lore (war) or (Imperial Guard)? Meh.

They count !

Background package, Elite Advance, Skill, Talent or Contact, that doesn't matter, all XP spent count.

So, yes, a DH PC reach Rank 2 as soon as he survive his first adventure and the player spends 100 XP.

Background packages dont count, otherwise yeah they all count.

I always let background packages count.
XP spent is still XP spent at the end of the day

Thanks for the input!

Crate said:

Where is it mentionned, please ?

Because, I don't remember reading that and I can't find it in my Inquisitorial Handbook copy, neither.

DarkLoic said:

I was sure that was the case too, but I can't actually find if or where that was said now. Might be something to ask FFG about.

MILLANDSON said:

Y'know what, I can't find it either. I playtested The Inquisitor's Handbook, and I remember seeing it there in the manuscript, but I can't find it in my FFG copy of the book or in the playtest manuscript now I look at it again. It's not in the errata either. Utterly bizarre.

Hm. Considering I recall both reading it and arguing about it on the forums a few times before, I guess it's just somewhere we haven't looked at. N0-1, is your playtest manuscript in digital form and searchable?

Inquisitor's Handbook, page 26.

USING BACKGROUND PACKAGES; first paragraph, second sentence -
"Any adjustments to your character by selecting a Background Package does not count as an Advance for increasing your Rank, nor do increases or reduction count toward the improvement of your Characteristics through normal means."

That's what I can find on the subject in the actual book. The only adjustment to ones character that could be considered for advancing ranks would be the XP cost. It's somewhat open to interpretation. I want to say that somewhere it is clearly stated, but I'm not finding it.

-=Brother Praetus=-

IH p. 26 and RH p. 35 both state that when using background packages:

"Any adjustments to a character by selecting a Background Package does not count as an Advance for the purpose of increasing in rank".

EDIT: Ninja'd

Khouri said:

That's a switch... Normally I'm the one being beaten to the post.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

IMHO, it's quite clear, isn't it ?

Take an example :

Bill is building an Arbitrator PC.

When spending his 400 XP, at character creation, he, first, takes The Calixian Pattern Killings Background Package, for 200 XP.

By doing so, his PC's Int or Per is increased by +5.

Bill chooses Int +5.

As the rules say, this does not count toward the improvement of his Characteristics through normal means.

So, he can also spend 100 XP to buy a Simple Advance to increase his Int by another +5.

At that point, he has spent 300 XP, which count for increasing his PC's Rank.

He still can spend 100 XP (and buy Inquiry +10, for example) and have earned Talented (Inquiry), which, still by the rules, doesn't count as an Advance either.

Err how can you read: "Any adjustments to your character by selecting a Background Package does not count as an Advance for increasing your Rank"

and get that the xp spent counts towards the next rank ?

Its quite clear to me, the xp spent on background does NOT count towards next rank and the stat bonuses do not count towards max/min stats.

If you think about it, the 400xp from Char Gen are supposed to represent that "your Acolyte is freshly recruited to the Inquisition, one amongst hundreds recruited by your Inquisitor. Surviving the 41st millennium is going to be tough, but the challenge of surviving and rising above the common herd is a rewarding one." In other words, Inquisitors don't choose rookie Arbites on their first day of work, or a conscript Guardsmen fresh out of Basic Training - you had a life prior to meeting the Inquisitor, where you developed skills and abilitiesthat the Inquisitor found useful, that made you stand out. Thus, the Inquisitor is willing to take a chance and see if this Guardsman who survived his company's trench being assaulted by Plague Zombies or a Techpriest who stumbled upon a Heterek conspiracy was just a fluke, or whether they have what it takes.

The 400xp represents that you've advanced some of the way through the entry-stage of your Career.

Crate said:

Because spending XP IS NOT an adjustment to your character.

In other words, "Any adjustments to your character by selecting a Background Package does not count as an Advance for increasing your Rank" simply means that, on your PC's sheet, you only write the background's name, not the adjustments listed in its description.

So, as I explain before, if a background package give +5 to a characteristic, this does not mean that you've bought any Advances for that characteristic.

I dont know what to say, I dont at all understand how you can read it the way you do (apart from the +5 to a stat not counting as an advance so you can still buy +20, we agree on that part). No need to argue as we apparently dont read written words the same way.

I've seen a lot of posts on this thread. I'm hoping my chiming in for my 2 cents worth doesn't cloud the issue.

If the 400 exp at start IF spent in part or a whole on a background package does NOT count against experience tracked for the character. If this package gives a +5 to a stat, this increase is NOT considered a class characteristic advance.

Additional experience spent at the start not spent in a package then counts against total experience. If this includes a +5 to a stat, this IS considered a class characteristic advance.

Example:

Ami, an Imperial Psyker, takes 'Living Nightmare' as a Background Package. This Package includes a +5 to starting WP, Resistence to Psychic Powers, & the Unreadable Mind trait. This also causes a side effect of gaining a d5 Insanity at start. Since the WP advance gained here, is part of a Background Package, then the WP advance does not count as a characteristic advance for her carreer.

Ami has 100 experience points left. She chooses to spend them on her first WP+5 advance. Since this is NOT part of the Background Package, it counts as her first advance in WP, and she can buy 3 more during her carreer (before ascension). It also means that XP spent for her is at 100 points.

Crate said:

Simply because, nowhere, in the rules as written, it is said that XP spent on a Background Package do not count toward Rank.

I am with Darkloic on this one.

It requires a bit of careful reading but its really pretty clear.

It clearly states that Advances/Skills/Talents gained from Background Packages do NOT count towards Rank. What it fails to explicitly note is that the Package XP cost DOES count. This is probably what causes a lot of confusion. I think the authors just sort of assumed that most people would realize this fact so didn't feel it needed to be stated.

I think the reason its there is to make sure the munchkins don't argue that the Background Package advancements count towards getting Rank 2.

For example, a munchkin could try to argue that the Common Lore (Underworld) (100XP), Intimidate (100xp) and Security (100xp) from the Sons of Dispater Background Package should count as getting 300XP towards their assassin's Rank. So theoretically this would allow the munchkin to use 200 XP on Rank 1 advancements and then use the last 100XP of his starting 400XP on a Rank 2 advancement...

Finally, let me throw in a small amount of common sense (as I see it). If XP spent on Background Packages did not count towards Rank, you have a situation where players will rank up at variable speeds. While this would usually only be a game session or two worth of difference, its still an odd choice to make from a game design and balance point of view. Being 2-300 xp behind the rest of the group is pretty significant at the low ranks. Its also quite odd in view of the variable Package costs and the restrictions by Career Path. It just somehow seems counter-intuitive to me.

Also, as someone mentioned, the 400 XP represents what you've done up to this point. Which is exactly what the Background Package also represents.

Just my opinions, of course.

Bladehate said:

I think that was exactly the authors intention, too.

But they have made it possibly a bit unclear the way they wrote it.