As we discuss sportsmanlike conduct and scouting in another thread, it got me thinking about things we would like to see from FFG in regards to Thrones. So I thought I'd make a thread where we could offer suggestions. While I can't control what people suggest, I would ask that you follow these guildelines: a) make the requests reasonable both from a time and money perspective. i.e. Saying you want FFG to give out $5,000 to the winner of Gencon is not reasonable. b) Offer specifics when discussing a specific solution. i.e. Saying you want FFG to have a better organized play program is too vague.

Here are some things I would like to see

1) A formal list from FFG of reprinted cards that are legal in the support section of this website.

-Can we use a card that says "1" instead of "an"? Does the addition of the word "only" on bodyguard change it? Basically little questions like these could be answered cheaply and quickly with a formal document from FFG.

2) Removal of ties at tournaments and the implementation of "closest to victory total" to determine a winner and loser when time is called.

3) Reprinting of the ex-champion cards in a future expansion box. I'd like to keep our legacy alive despite the fact that Fleabottom stunk

I totally agree with the first question about the reprints. It'd make my life so much easier. I mean I don't want to buy three core sets for three bodyguard.

I would like them to make league kits accesbile by means other then a store. I think it would be beneficial to them both because they will sell more kits (lots of people who play this only on baord game nights at their own house and not at a store) and it will increase interest in the game leading to more card sales.

I would also like them to be a bit more open in regard to a number of things. 1) the results of votes. 2) the order/plan for upcoming expansions (they have to be playtesting them before they announce them right, why not give us a longer glimpse into the future? Plus they could have really avoided a large outcry w/ Kings of the Sea). 3) rules issues, maybe make a player panel be official that nate can overrule if he doesn't agree with. Right now the only 'official' rulings you get are if you e-mail nate directly, which is fine and good for that person e-mailing him, but doesn't help the rest of the community out. having a panel would also take some of the burden off of ktom who is really 'unofficial'.

I'd also like them to try and have more cross pollenation between there games. Sure anyone of us can pick up on of the other LCG's and vice versa, but it would be cool if instead of seeming to compete for gamer's attention the LCG's worked toward getting them all hooked into each. The triathalon is an interesting start, but maybe (and giving stores an advantage once they make league kits public) have certificates for core sets to the other games (or expansions or 2-3 chapter packs) be prizes for store run tournaments could work. Another idea would be to stick overlap into the games (i.e. have a Greyjoy card be very similar in effect to a Cthulu [faction] card and use the same art), granted this is a little harder with IPs and all and especially w/ Games Workshop's IP, but I think it would be doable if you did it with somehting like "King Robert's Warhammer" and "Sigmar's Warhammer"....

Ugh, yes on the formal list of reprints. There was a large section of the playerbase at the Missouri Regional that didn't realize one word had been added to Bodyguard and thus invalidating it. This was brought to my attention Friday night, after the cube draft, and I ruled that it was just far too unreasonable to suddenly that on players as well as then having to pore over card after card after card looking for any other tiny tweaks that had slipped under the radar.

Honestly, many of those one word changes I feel were entirely superfluous beyond creating unnecessary confusion for new and old players alike as well as forcing players into buying product in a way that feels much more against the "LCG philosophy" than the thought of handing out promo or alternate art cards of some form.

I'd also like to see some more agot related products or prize support. I loved the gold dragon redemption idea, but obviously that wasn't very feasible for FFG from a money perspective, but I'd be willing to buy some of the old prizes they might have left over from those days. More house sleeves would be cool too.

I think it'd be awesome too if they sold either single cards or packs of cards for those things like bay of ice or other stuff from the kings of the sea box. or just for cards like forever burning and the like where you can't use the old version.

I know this is basically asking for the impossible, but I'd love for some way to make it easier to get into the game. I love the idea of LCG, I love the idea of only spending $12 a month on a chapter pack (with the occasional $30 large box pack), however I think I calculated it once, and in order to get a playset of everything up 'till now, it'd cost about $700.

Obviously I don't need every LCG card (although part of the LCG allure is having everything available to you so you can build any deck any time!), but even so, it kind of sucks to be like "oh man really need 3x of this one card, so now I have to buy 3x of it's chapter pack".

I honestly don't know what the solution is to this (unfortunately, having a bunch of friends start simultaneously is kind of out of the question, no one wants to play down here in Arizona and all my friends have everything they need back home). Perhaps some kind of "GET YOU CAUGHT UP WITH THE GAME PACK" that would have three copies of all the useful cards from a block, or something along those lines...

I don't know, wishful thinking. The (mostly) house-specific big boxes are a good step in the right direction, but I heard some don't include 3x of every card... $90 for a playset of something makes me cry!

I like 1 and 3 from Dobbler's list. In addition to that, I'd like to be able to buy single cards. I don't like having to buy an entire chapter pack when I only want one or several cards from that pack. I know this problem is fixed in the new cycle starting with "Brotherhood without Banners", but I'd still like to be able to buy single cards from all the previous LCG releases, including the Core Set.

hklown said:

FFG has to some extent tried to fix this. Starting with the Brotherhood without Banners cycle, every chapter pack will include 3x of each card so you won't need to buy each chapter pack three times to get playsets. Also, the Martell box has each card 2x at a pretty reasonable price. If you can find anyone else to split it with, you can end up with playsets of all the cards for under $30 which is a pretty good deal.

Single cards would be nice, but I don't think that will ever happen. Selling fixed sets of cards is probably as close to it as FFG can it (too much overhead to sell singles, especially when they've already printed up some nice packs with those single cards included in them). Personally, I don't have more than 1x of every chapter pack so I'd love to see some kind of help in this regard. I think the "catch up" pack might be possible - I'd love to buy a pack that had 1x of, among others, Forever Burning, Milk of the Poppy, Distraction, Iron Island Fiefdoms, Iron Mines, Gatehouse, Syrio Forel, Varys (KLE), Carrion Bird, White Raven, Black Raven, A Time for Ravens, The Hand's Judgment, Condemned by the Council, Price of War, Missing Recruit, Beguiled Bodyguard, King's Landing, The Red Keep, Fear of Winter, etc, etc, etc.

I think it would be a good idea to sell "GoT Essentials" boxes that included the most important cards from old sets to make it easier for new players to get into the game.

I don't necessarily think opening the lague kits up for pruchase to anyone is a good idea. Some players would buy the kits for the prizes instead of playing in leagues. There has to be some sort of control mechanism. I wouldn't mind if gaming groups were able to purchase them (and placing a limit ont he amount purchased) as it would keep the prizes special and not something that anyone with $15 could obtain.

A reprint list is almost necessary for the game at this point (same holds true for Cthulhu). And with Tzu-Mainn's site gone, probably for good, it would be nice to have an actual card database that we could visit and search.

Even with all the chapter packs I have pruchased, I wouldn't be upset if FFG decided to release special packs with 2x each of the single cards from the original chapter packs. If they pacakged it lke the Martell expansion, a player could buy the original CPs at $10 each and the "upgrade" box for $25 and have a full playset of the cycle. Then it falls in line with the new packaging system, and is actually $5 cheaper to get all the cards.

And I'd love to see Kings of the Sea re-released without the house card and 2x of each card. That type of packaging was more irritating than the core sets (at least we got more cards for that extra $10, even though some are reprints in one form or another).

The 2x of critical single cards is a GREAT idea. I'd buy that in a heart beat.

And yes please on teh world champ reprints. eveyrone one of tehm is sueful - and dobbs: I liked Flea Bottom and played it a lot. No one should ever sneer at a 0 cost reducer! It would go right in to my Bara nobles deck this second if it were legal. .

JerusalemJones said:

and? we buy so many of these things as a group thats its like everyone in our group paid $15 for the prizes they want anyway....for instance I couldn;t care less about the power tokens so have 0 of them. I do have one of every pin though.

If someone wants to buy the items they want I say let them. i don;t see why FFG would have a problem with this...will they refuse more money?

If they want to keep certain things limited to the store, like maybe the voting or something so that they don;t get ballot stuffing then I'd be behind that. They can also offer in store only incentive prizes (like certificates for more product....especially the other LCGs) to keep stores happy too.

I agree with Lars on the league kits. I don't believe you should be able to buy everything out of them, but for those of us who do not have a local meta anymore, we have no way of getting any of those prizes.

Now I already have one of the original league kit pins, but I have no way of getting any of the new style of pins, and as a collector, that REALLY sucks. If they decided to begin making the stone or glass house cards, or house faction sleeves, or anything else like that, people without a meta wouldn't have access to them.

I think they could open up some of it to the public to buy, but not all of it.

It would be awesome to have a reprint list. I really like the black border cards over the white borders, but because of one word like "one" being change to "an" or vice versa, I can't use them. Getting a distinct list of what is acceptable would be great.

And the same for champion reprints! I think it would be great to have them all back into rotation at some point.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with gaming groups getting league kits. But if my players (or customers, if you prefer) can buy the league kit, what incentive is there is actually pay me to play in a league and compete for the prizes? Little to none. Even as it sits, our leagues are often just a wash in making money (and don't say we should be making money from selling the game to subsidize the kits. This isn't Magic where profits off the game are in the hundreds or thousands of dollars. I am lucky to sell 10 copies of each chapter pack to our local players. Half of my profits from GoT should not go into providing the prize kit). Believe it or not, local game stores have to make money to pay for rent, utilities, wages (well, if you're lucky you can run the store yourself and work a second job so you don't have to pay wages), etc. Sure, we may do it because we love gaming, but most stores actually want to make money so they can stay open. If everyone could buy FNM cards, there would be less incentive to play Friday Night Magic. If everyone can get the prize kits for the LCG leagues, stores will be less inclined to buy them and run leagues. If our players all bought the kits themselves, I would stop running leagues. Even as it sits, my wife complains about the money we spend on the league kits because of the little return on investment. But fortunately I am obsessed enough about the game to still get them for our group.

I don't know what is in the league kit but what stops a store from just selling a kit to a single player?

Darksbane said:

Stores who want their players coming back to play.

If a store just sells the kit, they haven't gained a loyal player and they haven't gained increased business. They have probably just broke even money wise.

League kits are a way to get a weekly group of players together, to promote the game, bring business into the store, and create a loyal customer base. It's been my experience with the gaming store I used to frequent weekly, that those are the main reasons. I'm sure there are more.

I don't know about others, but a league kit does not entice me to play the game. I want to play the game because I enjoy the game in and of itself. League kit rewards would just be a bonus to me. Even with no kits, I'd love to join a regular weekly league.

That said, I don't think a fan of the game should be penalized and never able to get anything from the league kits simply because they don't have a store or local meta that will run a league.

Darksbane said:

nothing really. In fact our store doesn;t pay for the league kit...we as a group do (and order like 2 or 3 at a time).

We just have to wait for our store to get around to it and then pay them...

JJ, I think that idea about selling 1x (or 2x) of every card originally sold 1x in a chapter pack is good idea. It packages the product in a large enough box that FFG might actually be able to produce it profitably. Personally, I'd buy those for each of the first three cycles. I think it still might not be practical for FFG though because it seems like a decent number of players have already broken down and bought the extra copies of the chapter packs so the market would be smaller than for a typical chapter pack.

Also, since I neglected to mention them in my first post, let me echo my support for the official reprint list and official online searchable spoiler.

What is in the League Kits that's so desirable? I'm not into accessories very much myself so I haven't paid attention to them. I like the idea of encouraging players to go into physical stores and play. I think that helps raise the profile of the game and potentially attract new players. Around here, the game is pretty much underground (I haven't found a store that actually carries the game on the shelves). I'm okay with FFG offering some little knicknacks to reward players for going into stores (by knicknacks I mean: anything other than LCG legal cards that aren't available in Chapter Packs).

'Catch-up' packs containing the most important 1x cards from previous chapter packs would indeed be awesome.

With the upcoming changes in brotherhood without banners FFG have clearly made a decision that it's in their interest to give people 3 copies of every card rather than force people to buy 2 extra copies of a set just to get 2 cards (something only the most hardcore players will do, and even then only grudgingly). So why not fix their 'mistake' with the previous chapter packs and make some more money into the bargain by releasing catch-up packs?

Obviously there are plenty of different ways you could do such packs, and probably none of them would be perfect, but any of them would be alot better than nothing. I'm sure there are plenty of people like myself who would never buy an extra copy of a chapter pack just for one card, but who would buy such catch-up packs in a heartbeat.

Sorry guys, I'm on the side of the brick and mortar stores as far as the league kits go. There's already little enough incentive for players to go pay full price at a store when they can get them discounted online that I want to provide every incentive possible to keep the stores open where I like to play the game. Don't forget guys that the cheaper and easier it gets for you to play the game ($15 pack with 3 of every card versus 3 $10 packs) is less profit that the store makes in order to keep its employees paid, lights on and doors open. In fact, I would like more incentive to people in the physical stores where they are hopefully making purchases. I know I try to make sure that I at least buy a snack or two when I'm there each week so that some money exchanges hands, otherwise I feel like an utter slob for coming in and using their facilities for 5 hours or so each week without spending more than $10 a month for that privilege. (Yes, I've only been buying one of each Defenders pack because there hasn't been anything useful for my house of choice)

The current league kit is one play mat, and power coutners and house pins for Stark and Greyjoy. this means that for $15 (plus tax and shipping, so about $22 for one kit) I get five possibel prizes for my players. We run our leagues where the player with the best league standing gets first pick of prize, and the new achievement books in the kit allowed us to offer our second prize to the player with the most achievement points. In the case of the league ending this week, it looks like the same player will win both the league and the achievement points.

Previous kits have contained house pins, playing cards with GoT artwork, 3-ring binders for storing cards, poker chip power counters (my least favorite) and the voting forms for the storylines (which I think they are going away from, as none of the new league kits contained them).

Yes, our meta doesn't need prizes to get them to play. We play often and casually, and often more than the one game per week limit we put on our leagues to keep the points reasonable. And really for some of the players the prize is secondary to the bragging rights. And since we have to pay for these kits, we do charge for league play as well. But if all my players were able to go out and buy the kits, or just the prize they wanted, now I have nothing to entice my players into regular casual play. We would still play, but less frequently (which is proven, since everytime we take a break from the leagues we play less game between ourselves). At least the kits give us something to strive for besides jsut beating each other.

Kennon hit the nail on the head gaming stores need all the help we can get to keep customers in the door, and spending money at our store and not online. We provide gaming space, host tournaments and demos, and strive to give the best service as possible to our customers. Because we love games (we are a family owned business) we often are playing games with out customers. I play all the LCGs, my brother in law plays Magic, my wife loves boardgames (we play more Battlestar Galactica and Arkham Horror than anything else in the store). But when anyone can buy a box of Magic for less money on eBay or at Star City Games than we can get ir for wholesale, it hurts stores. Especailly the small stores, and we're located in rural Minnesota. So every sale helps, and every lost sale hurts us. We need every advantage to keep our store open, and with the economy as bad as it is it doesn't surprise me that more stores haven't closed in the last few years (there have been 4 game stores or stores that used to sell games close in central MN in the last year, and close to a dozen in the last seven, the same amount of time we have been open).

I wish many of you lived near stores like mine, that were willing to go the extra few steps for you and your games. Heck, I wish you lived near my store so we could get together and play, and you wouldn't experience the problems you are having. Sadly, that is not the case. And I'm surprised by a store unwilling to support any game they are making money off of (like Lar's store - if our players paid for every league kit, I'd get them far more often, because you are both playing at the store and hopefulyl buying your product from me as well).

Hello Folks

At first my Point of View was that FFG could easily expand GOT LCG in a few areas:

1. Update all banned cards so they could be used again - I don't quite understand why not update the text of this card with something like: kneel one influence and pay card cost to move an attachement from one character to the other. As CS got errata included in the second edition why no chapter packs. The same could go with Jaqen - looking at new cards like new black dragon it is just obvious he is to cheap.

2. Repacage older chapter packs with new 3x20idea - especially Call to Arms as most of the now banned cards could be easily rebalanced and updated. They also deserve to be put in the whites . As for ToR and later chapters - special new one super chapter with 60 unique cards times 2 whould be sufficient as stated above.

3. See and use the benefits of new digital era - these area is a bit more complex:

a. GOT needs real digital library - now present idea of Card of the Week is interesting and always gives me new insights into the game but we are two years from Core Set and there should be a place that does the justice to all the beautifull cards - I have spent a few weeks to digitalize the cards just to update OCTGN files with CS pictures the game deserves.

b. Digital edition of GOT could be a real kick in the ass of the game - as the the first season slowly comes to reality there of course could be a lot of media that would merchendise on this. Software that would allow players to purchase virtual cards to play online could give FFG real advantage over its competitors in this area. It would also allow to settle all the conflicts between players as loading decks into the game and replaying the steps that lead to conflict could be an ultimate solution. It would also be easier to test new chapter packs that way before introducing them into real paper world.

4. Expand and encourage the merchandise - also here I found subpoints:

a. I would like more variety in Character sleeves - we have six houses and neutral cards wheach means that to use different sleeves for different houses is quite difficult - I coped with it by using Jamie as Stark, Zi Mei as Targ, Hacan Lord as Lanni and Icewyrm as Bara. Is there a problem to create sleeves with eddard and catelyn for starks or dany and khal for Targs? In the second edition we will get Cersei - she is nice - but it is seconf Lannister character - I know that they have goldmines but plese no Tyrion in the third wave

b. Card albums and storage - does it justice to GOT cards to be stored in MtG albums ??

But now as usual customer I realize that may wishes will do anything from the list above only when they will believe they will capitalize on it. Can we do anything to convince them to? Do my dreams have anything in common with yours?

Sky

JJ this is the first league kit I've given a **** about since the switch to LCG and the new organized play system. I still showed up for every tournament I could.(Some I didn't play in because the numbers were sufficient without me, but I was still there in case they needed me.) If I have the $15 dollars, why shouldn't I be able to buy my own kit? I buy all my Thrones as well as many other books, games, etc from my local shop. Is it better for me to buy the items I want but don't win from other players or ebay?

Look at it this way. Let's say FFG decides to sell the game mat straight up for $20 about the average price of a game mat. If you bought them as a regular product, I would not have a problem. Same with power counters. But these are supposed to be prize kits for organized play. They are meant for the stores to use them to promote the game.

Can I stop you from buying your playmay off eBay? No. Can I stop you from buying them off other players? No. Can I stop the sale of other promo or prize items from any game, whther by other players or (unscrupulous) stores? Again, no. And like I said before, I do not have a problem with gaming groups getting the kits if there are no local stores available. But making the items in the league kits available to the general public at the same price point as store defeats the purpose of having a kit to promote organized play. If all of my players just went out and bought the prizes from FFG, I now have no incentive to host a league, and unless people are willing to pay entry fees for tournaments, I also have no incentive to run tournaments as well.

However, since the prize pins are meant to be exclusive prizes that will get the bearer entry into a special tournament held at the FFG Events Center later this year, and we are within an hour's drive of the Events Center, I do not think those items should be available outside of organized play.

The idea behind prizes is to provide something that people want, and would be willing to travel, pay, play and compete to obtain. Or buy from another winner, if they can't win or can't attend any OP events in their area. That is the nature of the prize beast. But don't ask me to support any player getting the same items for the same price that I would be using to promote and support OP, because then it devalues OP as a whole, and makes me and other stores less willing to put the time, effort and money into supporting OP.