JJ, I really do see where you are coming from as an owner, but I guess my question would be, are the op kits now drawing people to play in your tournaments or leagues who wouldn't show up for tournaments and leagues without the op kits? My limited experience with the game right now is that there are not a significant number of players showing up merely for the prize support in the op kits. They would show up to play the game if there was no op kits. So why not make the kits more available? Maybe things are different out there in the midwest than they are here on the east coast.

kpmccoy21,I'd have probably agreed with you that the kits don't materially influence whether people show up for League nights before the current kit, but I think the playmat has enough appeal that frequency of participation might rise and players might pick up an extra chapter pack for that key "rare" card in their deck to get more than one copy so as to better compete. I say that b/c a few of the NYers are hoping to win the mats now that we're resuming League play after the tournament and might make a bit more effort to make more meet ups b/c of it.

A question for those who think the League Kits should be available to anyone: Do you want there to be an Organized Play program supported by FFG and, if yes, what would define it if League prizes weren't exclusive to OP? That's a serious question, I'm not trying to be snarky. Would it just be an FFG player ranking system that only OP results would feed into? Would it be FFG giving GenCon reimbursements to League winners (like they did at Regionals)? Would OP just be Regionals, again with the GenCon reimbursements and, supposedly, a Hall of Fame on FFG's site listing winners?

LGR, I do like the fact FFG has an organized play program. To make it special, I like your ideas of player rankings and reimbursements for other regional or national tournaments.

Personally, I don't play because I want to be considered "the best", or to achieve some certain "official rank". I play to have fun. I realize I'm probably in the minority on these boards for that approach to the game, but there it is. Do I like to win? Of course. But I can have fun just playing the game too, even in a loss. I've even had more fun in some losses than I have in wins. I like games that are tightly contested and exciting regardless of final outcome.

I think the OP would support and encourage the competitive type of player more than it would the casual player and as such the rankings and reimbursements would carry more weight for those folks. I'm sure some of those folks play for the prizes, but my guess is they play more for the prestige than they do for the prizes (and maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's just my view of it).

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all people who enjoy the game have access to active metas or stores that run leagues. I don't think that should exclude those people from being able to obtain some of these cool prizes if they want them. I'm also sensitive to the plight of store owners and support their desire and efforts to be profitable for whatever games they sell (I'd probably buy all my stuff from JJ's store if I lived close enough to his location). I just think those who don't have access to those facilities or services should not be left out in the cold.

Thanks for the question. Did not find it snarky. Hope my reply is not taken that way either.

LetsGoRed said:

I came in under the CCG so I really loved promo cards for attendance and some other prize for placing/sportsmanship. Of all the new LCG OP support, I have liked the poker chips(I just want 15 to use as power counters), the wooden power counters from the last Regional, and the playmats. Nothing else has really grabbed me. I'm not into pins, special invitational tournaments, or the other tiny power counters. I like the ranking out of curiosity, it's not a real deal breaker. And outside of Regional events and Major Cons, I guess I really don't ever expect to see a strong OP program like it had the first 4-5 years. I don't think FFG gives a **** about localized OP programs. So i find these discussions a little too hypothetical to take seriously. ~Also, I'm not a good enough player to win at GenCOn so I would never have to worry about the reinbursements.

But I would like to see all the former champions cards be legal all the time. It seems like a minimal recognition for their accomplishment.

I would support JerusalemJones in his opinion with just one amendment. There should be a split between things somone can buy as a part of merchendise and some things should be outside of the range of everyone (regardless of desire).

Playing mats and nicer tokens are for me things one should be able to buy whenever one wants.

The special banners on the other side I would treat as something exclusive to the ones who are able to win a league or other event. These should be things "outside of gameplay" area. Let's say some figure or painting or anything special resembling the game. Can we Imagine sportsman who after winning three gold medals in Olimpic Games says - ok I will leave one for myself and sell other two on Ebay ? Whenever You see a room of such person You see all his throphies in their true glory. GOT throphies should be treated this way to the certain point of course .

Now the question is does the FFG want me to use Magic the Gathering playing mat till I win a tournament or league or something? I don't quite think so. If the owner of gaming point can capitalize on the fact that each player participating in a tournament want to BUY his own playing mat (in his House style of course) then the owner wins in this way as he gets the margin on selling each product. Of course then he has to think about something else as a prize.

As a LCG evolves and all new CPs will consist of 60 cards the incentive for the most competitive players to spend more cash fades to black. The shop will not generate additional cash flow of the people who play the game. To do so he must expand the player base. I can imagine that if I could show my LCG card Collection to a new guy who would not only see the cards themselves, but also albums, card protectors for each house and neutral cards, portfoliios and such that this would immerse him even stronger. If I would like to buy album for my cards what choice do I get - two types of non painted albums and plethora fo vampires and MTGs.

Do not take me wrong as I would not describe myself as anything more than beginning casual player. I live in a suburbs of one of the biggest polish cities. There is just one shop in the town (750 th souls) which offers this game and I got information there about someone who plays it frequently. So I know that I will play GOT with my best coleagues (3-4 of us to be frank). Will I deserve the stark badge even if I win the whole season in the group of a few man? I wouldn't even want it as I would treat it as a cheat. But why could I not buy a mat for the game i like so much? I do not know.

Sky

I wanted to offer my opinion on one of the subjects being treated in this thread, namely the idea of offering "chapter pack companion" products, containing x2 copies of the single cards contained in each chapter pack.

While I'm not intimately aware of the economies of scale and production involved, I can't imagine that this would be a profitable product for FFG. If we're talking about selling individual chapter pack "upgrade kits" containing x2 copies of the single cards, we're talking about printing, packaging, and shipping 24 new products, each with an extremely limited market (people who have already bought the chapter pack, and who haven't already bought several copies of a single chapter pack). I can't imagine these would sell for less than $10 (they would probably have to sell for more, since FFG would need to recoup more of their expenses per pack because of the smaller print run). Once it reached a $15 price point (as I expect it would), I think most gamers would ask "Why don't I just buy two copies of the original chapter pack? It's five bucks more, but they I'd get multiple x3 sets of some useful cards, in case I wanted to build multiple decks." I just don't think it's feasible.

FFG has limited resources to invest in new products. Here is the question they have to ask, in order to serve both their investors and their customers: what is going to sell more copies? New products, new expansions, and new chapter packs, each moving ahead with the x3 model that they've settled on? Or a niche product, meant to "correct" a previous distribution strategy, that would only appeal to a small market that a) had already bought a previous product, b) was willing to pay a substantial amount for a full playset, and c) had not already purchased multiple copies of those chapter packs?

I will suggest this (and I'm still operating out of a complete ignorance of the economies involved): instead of " chapter pack companions ," I could imagine " Cycle companions ," that would have x2 copies of all the previous "single cards" from an entire Chapter Pack cycle (x2 of 60 cards = 120 cards total). The advantages of this would be:

1.) Hardcore players who had already purchased multiple copies of specific chapters pack might still be inclined to purchase a "cycle companion," since it would complete their playset at a lower price point that buying up multiple copies of the other chapter packs in that cycle.

2.) Because each cycle would represent only one product, it would only add four new products to the game of thrones marketplace, and each could be sold at a substantial price point (once again, I'm ignorant of the economies involved, but since it would be a small print run, I would assume a price point of $30-40; it would probably be more than "Lords of Winter" because it would have a smaller appeal, hence FFG would need to recoup a greater profit on each product.)

3.) It might add an incentive for new players who want only the x3 model to purchase the previous chapter packs, which would please distributors and retailers and make them more likely to purchase A Game Of Thrones products in the future.

I'm not sure if anyone from FFG is reading this thread, but I'd like to suggest the above for consideration. Once again, it might be too niche a market for a feasible product, but I would pay $40 retail for such a product, and I would buy one for each of the four previous chapter pack cycles. It might be worth considering if there are enough potential customers like me to justify a print run.

~Foils?

1. OP is always my biggest annoyance. Heck, it wasn't perfect but the old system (for us old-timers) of straight up points for each house is better than nothing. As were promo-tourneys - a lot of fun, and I remember it got people into stores to play and made friends for me in the least.

2. I wouldn't say no to reprinting the Champion cards And I used Flea Bottom all the darn time, Dobbs!