Challenge Resolution Framework

By plebeianmaw, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

We are so very close to nailing this down (I hope). The only time we get hung up is during the Framework Challenge Resolution Phase. In recent memory, the exact timing of the 'deadly' effect (Is it considered a passive ability, or does it have it's own resolution time) and the Battle for whispering wood's additional kill effect that takes place "After you have won the challenge".

We are running off the idea that triggered effects that occur, occur after step 2 (Challenge results implemented) or step 1 (Determine the winner of the challenge)

It's understood that, in a military challenge for example, the 'claim' of that challenge (a character being killed) is implemented in step 2, but the character remains Moribund until after framework step 4 (in action phase step 6) if the character is not saved.

I guess that the primary confusion is with cards like "battle for whispering wood". When would 'after a player has won a challenge' occur? After the framework action phase for challenge resolution, starting it's own window, or during the framework phase, target decided just after step 1 (before military claim has been implemented) making the target moribund until framework action phase step 6? And in that case, can a moribund target from that claim then be chosen by the defending player as their military claim challenge?

And where does deadly fit into all of this?

After this, I swear we'll have it locked down gui%C3%B1o.gif

Deadly is resolved with all other passives (so are Vigilant and Vengeful). Pretty much everything that can happen that is not determining the winner of the challenge, claim, reward for unopposed, and renown (and save/cancel responses specifically to each of these) occurs during the common steps 4 (passive abilities) and 5 (responses) to the challenge resolution framework action window. By "common" I mean that passives and responses keying off of challenge result, claim, unopposed, and renown all initiate simultaneously during these steps. So passives that use phrases like "after you win a challenge" or "after X is killed" (assuming X was chosen for claim) would both occur during this step 4 (and responses that trigger off of these sorts of conditions could be triggered during this step 5).

A moribund card may never be chosen for an effect that would cause it to leave play again. It can only be chosen for effects that change its destination (usually such effects will include the word "instead").

The phrasing on Battle of the Whispering Wood is ambiguous to me in its timing. My guess would be that the kill effect should be resolved as a passive during step 4 of the framework action window since that is the most obvious and typical way that such an effect would be resolved.

The additional kill for Battle of the Whispering Wood would resolve as a passive effect in Step 4 - just like Deadly, the additional kill from Fury of the Wolf, etc. So the First Player will decide which is resolved first, Deadly or the additional kill.

As for the larger timing questions on resolving challenges, it works like this. Keep the following in mind:

Step 1.1: Initiate "Determine winner of challenge" by comparing total participating STRs.
Step 2.1: Save/Cancel "determining the winner"
Step 3.1: Resolve "determine winner" / challenge officially won

Step 1.2: Initiate "Settle claim effects"
Step 2.2: Save/Cancel vs. "Settle claim effects"
Step 3.2: Resolve claim effects

Step 1.3: Initiate "Award unopposed"
Step 2.3: Save/Cancel "award unopposed"
Step 3.3: Resolve awarding unopposed / power officially claimed

Step 1.4: Initiate "Award Renown"
Step 2.4: Save/Cancel "award Renown"
Step 3.4: Resolve awarding Renown / power officially claimed

Step 4: Passives (including Deadly) to anything above

Step 5: Responses to anything above

Step 6: End (remove moribund cards)

The most important point - and the one that most people stick on - is that you do not do ANY passives or Responses to winning/losing the challenge, settling claim (kill in military, discard in intrigue, move power in power challenges), awarding unopposed or awarding Renown until ALL four of those things are done. So a passive to winning the challenge (like Deadly) doesn't happen until after claim, unopposed, etc.

Alright, as complicated as that was, I think I've got it. lol, thanks.