hey all - I noticed that some of the stats with the pre-gens seem off. All the marines' Strength modifiers are 10 via Unnatural Characteristics. However their Str are in the 40s. Shouldn't this modifier be 8?

Now I noticed that Mark VII Power Armour has Enhanced Strength - 'Increase the Battle-Brother's Strength by +20. The effect on SB is calculated after the Unnatural Strength modifier.' So for example Brother Elyas' STR is listed as 47 with a STR modifier of 10. Should his STR because of the power armour be 67 with a modifier of 12 or is the power armour already included.

The math seems kinda funky & I would love someone to clear this up for me.

THANX IN ADVANCE

Jefferson

I remember a problem with this when Brother Agamorr first appeared; the answer went something like this... and I now call on Brother Octavius for help to explain:-

Brother Octavius Str 49 = SB 8 (thanks to Unnatural Strength x2), + PA MkVII SB bonus +2 = total 10.

For the purposes of rolling Str Octavius needs to roll under 69 (49+ Armour +20 bonus)

Yes it is clear as mud and perhaps another illustrious member can put things a little more succinctly or FFG can add something to the FAQ

DW

And thanks to Brother Octavius who can now return to smiting the Emperor's enemies!

Traveller61 said:

Minor Correction:

In addition to the power armor bonus, the unnatural characteristic gives him an additional +10 to the test, up to a +30

Otherwise, this is indeed how I believe they did their math.

I have a question, rather couple of them:

Why is that BA devastator has more Intelligence than Ultramarine Apothecary who is supposed to be scholar?

Why do Space Marines have Charm skill?

Is it me, or is Apothecary pretty much not good?

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Being smart isn't really the same as being scholarly. One is a measure of raw intellect, the other is an outlet for that intelligence.

When the average citizen's default attitude towards you is fear or awe, it helps to be able to sway their opinion. Also, when dealing with other branches of a military that you are the elite unit of, it helps to be charming in order to overcome any jealousy or hostility they may have towards you.

In the game I ran the Apothecary managed to route one Horde and bring down a building using grenades. Overall they are just as combat capable as any other Marine, and they can heal you on top of it.

SB multiplication is done before any addition. So Str of 47 = 4x2 = 8, then add +2 for the power armor bonus = 10. If any of the SM PCs remove their power armor, their SB would be reduced to 8.

The +20 to strength is not included on the stat line, because there are Str based skills that do get get the bonus S. Intimidate, for example, uses the SM's raw Str score, without the +20 for the Power Armor. The Power Armor gives the bonus for tests such as for lifting, etc.

Minor Correction:

In addition to the power armor bonus, the unnatural characteristic gives him an additional +10 to the test, up to a +30

FYI: While this is probably in the main rules, this is *not* in the FS Demo rules, so would not apply when running the demo adventure (until the DW rules come out).

Why is that BA devastator has more Intelligence than Ultramarine Apothecary who is supposed to be scholar?

The BA PC is smart, but not necessarily as learned. The Apothecary has a lot of training and education, though.

Why do Space Marines have Charm skill?

I believe only some of them do. And why not? SM need to interact with others, whether they are other SM or not. It would be useful for a SM, especially DW, to be able to wrangle assistance from the local authorities without brow-beating or threatening them.

Is it me, or is Apothecary pretty much not good?

It's you. The Apothecary is just as good as the other PCs. Chainsword, bolt pistol, the ability to heal 5-9 Wounds at a time, etc. I did give my Apothecary a +10 bonus for having the medical kit/glove, despite it not being listed on equipment.

dvang said:

Where are you getting this from? I've never see any mention of it in any version of the Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader rules, nor in any part of Final Sanction (I've just checked my copy). The text for the Power Armour literally just states: "Increase the Battle-brother's Strength by +20. The effect on SB is calculated after the Unnatural Strength multiplier."

dvang said:

Note: that rule isn't in any source except The Inquisitor's Handbook - it isn't mentioned in any Rogue Trader book I've seen, for example - so there's no reason to assume that it's in Deathwatch either. It might be, but it may not be.

Yet they both have the same set of skills except BA has logic and Ultramarine has Medicae. Don't get me wrong, I do not want to trash the characters, I am just asking some questions that to me seem necessary and odd. I am just personally thinking of tweaking a stat or two for some. All in all, Characters do look fine. Too bad they didn't include at least a flamer for one of the tactical brothers

Personally I am picking Space Wolf and Blood Angel as the best.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

If you look very carefully, you'll see that all of the characters pretty much have the same core skill set.
Core Skills (presumably common to all Astartes):

• Awareness
• Common Lore (Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, War)
• Dodge
• Intimidate

With the exception of Brother Skold, all of the sample characters also have Scholastic Lore (Codex Astartes) .

Brother Elyas (Dark Angel) - has no particularly "unique" skill, and, ultimately has one less skill than everyone else.
Brother Sepheran (Blood Angel) - has the Logic skill.
Brother Skold (Space Wolf) - has both the skills Charm and Search ; he also has both the highest Per and Fel at 53 each.
Brother Lucian (Ultramarine) - has the Medicae skill; go figure.
Brother Octavius (Ultramarine; web enhancemen t ) - has Charm and the second highest Fel at 48.
Brother Gregor (Storm Warden; web enhancement ) - has Search and matches Octavius for the second highest Per at a 46.

Given the characters' special abilities, I still think the Dark Angel should have been the Devastator and the Blood Angel the Assault Marine. But then, the characters weren't built to be a munchkin's min/maxed dream. They are examples, and very playable ones at that.

If I were to pick myself a favorite, it would be Brother Skold. But I have a thing for Space Wolves in general.

-=Brother Praetus=-

The math makes sense because they specifically stated that the +20 is applied after the unnatural strength bonus. The equation would look something like this: (40*2)+20. What I want to know, is where the extra multiplier to SB comes with the power fist. Would it just be (40*3)+20, or (40*2)+20+(40+20).

Lord Richter Castus said:

Second paragraph for the Power Fist description on Page 19:

• A power fist adds a multiplier to the weilder's Strength Bonus. (Note: A Space Marine already doubles his Strength Bonus from his Unnatural Strength Trait. Therefore the power fist increases the multiplier by one, tripling the Space Marine's Strength Bonus)

So, the math would be (base SB*3)+2 for the PA, for a grand total of 2d10+14 for Brother Elyas' Power Fist... +1d5 on a charge with his jump pack. Hope that clears it up for you.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Thanks for clearing that up Brother Praetus. I wasn't sure if the armor's bonus factored in before or after the fist's bonus to SB. I'd assumed it would(addin 6, rather than 4)simply based on the order in which the items are worn. Stupid MtG stack rules.

In regards to the Blood Angel Int at 50 could it be perhaps a bonus on char generation? Blood Angels are renowned for creating great works of art on their downtime, I mean Trade Artist is based on Int so it'd make sense. I mean judging from the stats it looks like it might be around a 30+2d10 to create them and i'll eat my d10s if your starting stats arn't modified by your Chapter.

Of course it could be just a lucky roll. That's if they even roll the characters up for these things come to think of it.

ooh orrr it could be the personal demeanor of "Calculating" gave him a bonus to Int.

Okay I'm babbling now in a frenzied/excited about Death Watch fashion I think 'll go sit down now.

Hi,

Scanning through both the extra characters and the pre-gen characters in Final Sanction all the Move values don't correlate with the corresponding AB.

I'm wondering if the MKVII Aquila armour functions like Ignatus-Pattern Power Armour on pp.143-44 in Ascension for DH, where not only is there a +1 to movement as well as the +20 to strength. If so then surely the movement bonus was omitted on p.21 under the traits for the Aquila power armour - even though they were factored into the movement.

Rictus said:

Power Armour since the Dark Heresy rulebook has increased a character's size to Hulking, which increases the character's movement to AB+1. There's no reason to assume that Astartes Power Armour wouldn't.

Thanks N0-1_H3r3 for clearing that up.