Just became uncertain. Can you buy Treachery with the 15 starting xp? or ONLY upgrade cards? (not lieutenants, I know).?

edderkoppen said:

In the rules it states:

6. The overlord player begins the Advanced Campaign with 15 XP to spend on Avatar Upgrades. After re-reading the rules about this, it's hard to believe we went through all the trouble with LTs in the first place!

Only the upgrade cards are "Avatar Upgrades". LTs, Plots, and Treachery are not. After re-reading this section in the rules, I'm amazed that we went through all the debate about LTs in the first place!

Thanks for sorting it out for me, though!

Are you refering to only upgrades that grant your avatar bonuses? So one cannot buy siege engines, or other upgrades that don't effect the avatar at the begining?

Actually you can buy lieutenants too, with your initial 15xp:

"Avatar Upgrades can improve the Avatar itself, upgrade a specific type of monster, or bring into play a lieutenant for the overlord to command".

So you can spend your initial 15 on "Avatar Upgrades" and those upgrades include the avatar, upgrading monsters or lieutenants. Pretty much anything except a treachery.

Sorry, but why not just read the rulebook. It has answers for many questions. For example it says you can buy avatar upgrade-cards with your starting 15 Xp except the lieutenants! So every of these nice little white cards with the red circle in the upper left or right corner... just not the lieutenants. Why? Cause the rules say so

It's not that difficult.... sorry.

I think you can buy Lieutenants:

It says on page 8 on setup:

"The overlord plyaer begins with 15 XP to spend on Avatar Upgrades. See "Overlord Upgrades" on page 24.

Ok, go to page 24, section on Avatar Upgrades:

"Avatar Upgrades are represented by Avatar Upgrade cards."

"There are 15 generic Avatar Upgrades that any Avatar can be upgraded with. There are also five specific to each Avatar..."

"Avatar Upgrades can improve the Avatar itself, upgrade a specific type of monster, or bring into play a lieutenant for the oerlord to command."

"The XP cost of each individual Avatar Upgrade card is listed on..."

It clearly states that Avatar Upgrades can bring a lieutenant into play.

Okay... it's not in the rulebook. My mistake... but still you can't!

From the gathered list of answered questions:

Are lieutanents considered an avatar upgrad, e.g. can they be purchased before the game starts?

It was not my intention that the OL be able to purchase Lieutenants with his starting free 15 XP. The heroes need a couple of turns to get into the swing of things. So no, you cannot purchase extra Lieutenants to start the campaign.

Aha, well bummer, that significantly limits the OL. Thanks for finding that. I was reading the manual over and over, and it was pretty clear they were allowed per the rulebook, so hopefully that will work its way into the next errata.

That however seems to leave that initial 15 Xp almost worthless. Unless you're going to go for Siege Engines, right? All the "Your avatar gains this..." cards are useless so early since they wont take effect for 60+ gaming hours yet... That leaves really 2 choices:

- Siege Engines

Or,

A combination of 5's...

Lawlessness is ok, tho arguably more encounters just feed the heroes more gold

Focused is another good 5, to ditch 4 OL deck cards, and burn some aims/dodge, or weak spawn cards

That leaves what - 15 extra wounds, or take the Big Trouble and burn the last 2 XP.

I guess you could take Eldritch Lore (hand size +1) but does that really help? I've never found hand size to be a problem.

Or the avatar-specific monster upgrades like Montain giants or Bloodthirst.

Which combo is preferred?

When i play the OL i always go for the Siege Engines... Razing Cities is important and somethind which is to be done the whole campaign. At least you should try ...

So I think íts the best card you can purchase for the starting 15 xp...