Okay, Cha0s and I were arguing about this tonight, and I think i'm right...

The new Catelyn says you can put her into play knelt as a defender. From my understanding of how timing works, this could be done after Stealth is declared during your effects window after defenders are declared, meaning I can drop Catelyn into play after my opponent has had their chance to Stealth something. This seems to make sense to me, because you could add Greatjon Umber to the challenge after defenders are declared during your effects window if necessary, and both of their abilities are "Challenges" abilities so they would work off the same timing. Am I wrong?

You are indeed correct. You can use her during the action window between declaring defenders and challenge resolution. So after stealth has been declared.

phoenixember said:

Edit: well, Staton just beat me on this one but I'll leave mine any way : ) ....

Nope, you're right : ) Stealth targets are chosen at the beginning of the declare defenders framework action window (ie just before defenders are actually declared). There is a player action window that occurs after that but before the challenge resolution framework action window. That's the player action window when you would usually use Catelyn or the Greatjon. I guess the point to clarify here (which you already noted) is that Catelyn becomes a defender as the result of a triggered effect during a player action window. Her ability does not somehow require her to be put into before or as stealth targets are being declared, so she can get around stealth.

You are not wrong. You can put Catelyn into play in the action window after defenders are declared but before the challenge resolves.

Note that this has nothing to do with Stealth. Even if you put her into play in the action window before defenders are declared, she enters play as a defending character . You never actually declare her. So when you use her ability, she cannot be stealthed because she just enters the challenge, completely outside of the timing and rules of stealth.

Was pretty sure I was right on this one. He's just mad i'm beating his new deck so he's trying to take whatever advantage he can get. Thanks all.

And that actually makes a lot of sense, ktom. I hadn't thought of it that way.

Does that mean Greatjon's ability would get him around Stealth, since his ability adds him to the challenge by means other than normal defender declaration?

phoenixember said:

Yes, in fact, the Greatjon can jump into a challenge even after he has been chosen for stealth (stealth only affects a character's eligibility to be declared as a defender).

schrecklich said:

Actually, this is not true. When you read the definition of Stealth, it does not say "the Stealthed character cannot be declared as a defender." It says "the Stealthed character cannot defend ." So if Greatjon is hit by Stealth, you cannot use his ability to jump him into the challenge as a defender after stealth is declared.

If you are afraid that he will be hit by Stealth, you can always jump him in before Stealth is assigned. Once a character is participating in the challenge, Stealth cannot remove them from the challenge.

If a character is hit by stealth before they become a participant in the challenge, they cannot enter the challenge on the defending side. If you play Greatjon wrong, Stealth can keep him out (if you play him right, it can't). With Catelyn, though, since she goes directly from "hand" to "defending in the challenge" there is never an opportunity to use Stealth on her before she is participating in the challenge.

Cool, thank you ktom, also makes a lot of sense, and suddenly makes the Greatjon a lot better in my eyes.

ktom said:

Ack, sorry, that's my M:tG intuition fouling me up again. In that game "block" is synonymous with "declare as a blocker" and even cards that "can't block" can become blockers through effects other than the framework event of declaring blockers....

So does she have an effect that lets her be played outside marshalling phase?

mikey said:

Placing a card on table from your hand by paying gold during marshalling phase - it's "playing a card". Any other case it's "putting a card into play". Important distinction in this game. I'm not sure why you ask, but many cards have ability to be put into play, doesn't matter what phase currently is as long as you meet requirements. See Khal Drogo or The Titan's Bastard from Core Set.

I just have thought that you probably didn't see spoiler of her and that's why you ask. If that's the case, click link in my signature.

Ah yes thankyou, that explains it - sorry (newb!)