First, sorry if there's a better forum for this, but I thought it was more appropriate here than in the fan content forum considering that it's ultimately just a rules discussion. In light of some of the balance issues that have a fairly broad consensus, I devised some house rules. Most of these target a combination of mechanics and flavor. A couple of these regard the investigators themselves, but most are for the personal stories. These are probably not complete because I'm attempting to consider all investigators at the same time, and there are quite a few to become familiar with. Here goes:

1. Mandy can only use her research power on herself or another investigator in her location.

2. Patrice can only use her inspiring power on an investigator in her neighborhood.

These weaken the 2 most-unanimously-considered-overpowered investigators by an appropriate amount, I think. And, it makes more logical sense.

3. Sister Mary does not roll for her blessing. This flows with Rex and helps out Mary a lot without doing anything to break her. I am modifying her PS slightly to accommodate the change.

**I've been thinking a lot about Daisy. Many people consider her broken, but statistically she is only middle of the road. I'm leaving her alone for now until I have/see more thorough evaluations on her.

Now for the Personal Stories:

1. Vincent, Jenny, and Hank need only spend 3 clue tokens instead of 5. Admittedly, this isn't all that clever and might make it too easy to get them, I might come up with something better but these 3 need help because their pass conditions are too costly and they are below average characters without them (at least Vincent is).

2. Mark gets +1 focus in addition to +1 sanity. Most investigators get either a powered up special or 2 passive bonuses. I want to bring that into uniformity with all investigators. Focus and sanity are thematically similar, so the bonus to both is appropriate for his story. I realize that his fail condition is extremely light, but considering that his pass isn't the easiest to obtain and he's a middle-tier investigator I don't think it's a big deal.

3. Micheal gets +1 fight instead of +1 sanity, but retains the sanity healing from monster killing. This makes more narrative sense for his story, and gets rid of the pesky generic +1 sanity that all but 1 (Tony) of the low sanity characters get.

4. Harvey's is changed dramatically. I wanted something more unique for him that still makes sense for his story, rather than the same ability that Daisy has and that Dexter can get (which seems to fit him perfectly). I came up with, instead of +1 stamina and -1 sanity cost for spells, he gets a +1 speed and the ability to automatically pass spell checks when his lore is at 6 (for spells that are based on the number of successes he still rolls but has a 'bonus' success). To me, it's more unique, just as flavorful, and more appropriate for his character.

5. Silas' pass could stand to be a little better. Mandy can close and seal a gate without having to be devoured (though it isn't terribly likely to happen). So, when Silas' PS is passed, also remove a doom token from the doom track.

6. Gloria's I find to be very unsatisfiying, but I'm not sure how to change it - help would be appreciated. I considered just adding +1 lore as well, but will and luck would be just as appropriate for her story/character. Her pass condition should probably be harder if it's powered up as well.

7. George for sure needs a little more help. He should get +1 focus in addition to the +1 stamina, similar to Mark (his story is similar as well).

8. Zoey should gain +1 will instead of +1 sanity. She's a nutcase, and her PS doesn't change that. Will makes more sense, and the +1 sanity is too generic as I mentioned above.

9. Mary's fail should just remove her curse rather than bless her. Her pass just makes her blessing permanent, and the pass condition should be increased from 2 to 3 blessings, I think.

I'd like for folks to honestly critique the above. Some of them I'm more certain about than others, but I would like to get some extra input on ways that these might affect gameplay that I might not be foreseeing. I'd also like to print some new PS cards at some point and would appreciate any advice on the best way to go about that (I am using strange eons), with portraits and such. Thanks!

Ok, I don't claim to be an expert, but I'll just throw in my opinions.

1) I've never really understood the logic of how Mandy is broken. Top tier, sure, but broken, I just don't get it. Her abilityis less effective in larger investigator games, since she can only use it once per turn. But anytime you have an ability that's used on yourself or someone in the same location as you, then it's pretty much only going to be used on yourself the entire game. But I guess if you wanted to knock her down, that's the way to do it.

2) Now, Patrice I think everyone knows is broken. To me, she is broken not really because of her Inspiring ability, but because she has Inspiring on top of Ominous Dreams. Those dreams make her a Clue magnet that shouldn't be able to be spent by everyone. So when I always house rule Patrice, I keep her Inspirting ability the same, and just get rid of the Ominous Dreams all together, or just make Ominous Dreams give her the 5 Clues for reaching the 9th doom token on the doom track, and not one for each gate that opens. This keeps her effective, but she has to work for those clues to allow others to spend.

Personal Stories

3) I really don't like this one, sorry. Michael already has 6 Fight, and starts with the Tommy Gun. So another +1 Fight is just too much for him, and the +1 Sanity, while maybe it is generic, is something he can use a lot more than a +1 Fight. The problem with 3 Sanity investigators is that Sanity is slightly more precious than Stamina, since there are more ways to raise combat checks than horror checks, and spells and tomes use Sanity.

8) Like Michael, a +1 to Sanity is helpful to Zoey, especially since her ability is designed for her to be a monster fighter, or go into final combat against an AO. Though a +1 Will is better than a +1 Fight.

That's all i can really comment on, until Ithink further on it.

edit: nvm

Mandy: >SIGH< If you MUST. I'm with Cimmerz, though: I don't understand how a SINGLE reroll , even if it is rerolling just the failures, once per turn breaks the game.

Patrice: I've found that limiting Patrice's sharing ability to just skill checks and nothing else (like seals or Quachil) tends to stabilize her quite a bit. Not so much that we lose, but enough so that we aren't the freakin' Superfriends.

Sister Mary: I've stuck with this: If Mary rolls a 1 on her Upkeep Blessing Check, she may pass a Will (-1) Check to reroll it. This may only be done once per Upkeep, no Clues may be used to enhance it, and the difficulty to pass the Will Check increases by 1 every time it is used throughout the game. It's a bit of extra bookkeeping, but it's thematic as the game gets more oppressive, it doesn't really interfere with her Personal Story, and most importantly, I like it.

I congratulate you on your objective view of Daisy, and wonder aloud why you don't use the same when you look at Mandy.

Personal Stories:

1. Come up with something else to sacrifice instead of the 2 Clues. An item, money, Sanity, Stamina... something. "3 Clues + something" instead of "5 Clues" would make up the "too easy" part.

2. Agreed!!! This is my favorite of your PS adjustments. It's even a tad thematic: without all that revenge clouding his judgment, Mark's mind is a bit clearer to focus.

3. Hmm. I always thought Michael's story was fine as is. The Sanity Healing (since he's now at 4 Sanity) has always worked excellently for me. If you really think you have to add something because you feel it's "too generic"...like I said: Hmm.

4. I really do love your enthusiasm here, but automatic Spell Checks under any conditions is asking for trouble. I would prefer you keep the +1 Stamina, and add the +1 Speed instead of the Daisy clause. If that's not enough, add a couple of Clues to the pass; it is called "Eureka!" after all.

5. Absolutely not. It's a FREE SEAL...ANYWHERE. The reason Mandy gets to do it without being devoured is because her pass conditions are almost impossible. But Silas can conceivably achieve his pass conditions by Turn THREE, and you want to remove a Doom Token for that??? Again, love your enthusiasm, but DISAGREED.

6. Everyone seems to be so fond of saying that Gloria's abilities are so much more powerful than Jim's, to the point that Jim has fallen to the bottom 10. If that's the case, then apparently Gloria doesn't NEED any more help. Hmph.

Okay, that was a little bitter, eh? Sorry. I would love to change the Fight bonus to Lore or Will. If you want to boost both Lore and Will, increase the Clue requirement to 8, or better yet, force her to spend her Clues. Why not write her a pass condition similar to what you want for Jenny, Hank, and Vincent?

7. Hmph. All George has to do is beat up a Cultist. If you're trying to "fix" him, you better make him work for it. (At least Rita has to get more trophies.) But I have more trouble with George's Speed than his Focus...

8. I think equating Zoey's piety to her being a "nutcase" is a little off-putting. I agree that a Will boost makes more sense, but I'm not willing to lose the Sanity bonus. I would rather you just trade the Fight boost for Will, and leave the rest alone.

9. I'm not touching Mary any more than I already have. In my Cult, my little clause above and the uniqueness of her Story results have caused the Haters of Mary to love her now. And technically, you already made her Blessing virtually permanent with your clause above; now her Pass just adds "may not be Cursed". (Automatic Curses aren't overly common.) Whether you use 2 or 3 Blessings, I think it's not going to matter too much to anyone to bother trying to pass it now.

Whew. That enough honesty for you? Thanks for a fascinating topic!

Thanks for the responses! The two of you had some of the same general concerns so let me try to explain in more detail my motivations for some of the alterations while responding to the analysis.

jgt7771 said:

Well, I'm actually judging from the reported statistics, which show that Mandy is far and away the most effective investigator with a large gap to Patrice and then another large gap to the rest. Daisy is in the middle, for a slew of potential reasons, but considering there's no hard data to her OPness, I want to leave her alone for now. There's almost no question that Mandy and Patrice are more powerful than every other investigator in the game amongst most players, and the statistics data backs this up. I feel like reducing the effectiveness of their powers is appropriate. But, I will definitely playtest it more.

jgt7771 said:

1. I will come up with something, I'm not satisfied with just "spend 3 clues".

2. Great.

3. My issue with Michael's story is this: 5 of the 6 7/3 characters get a +1 to sanity. By contrast, only 2 of the 5 3/7 investigators get +1 stamina. I realize that most people consider sanity to be more important, and that's why they were all given sanity. However, I disagree with it. I think it is far better to come up with unique rewards that are just as helpful as +1 sanity to as many investigators as possible. I decided the +1 sanity was more appropriate for Mark, Monterey, and Skids than it is for Michael and Zoey. I like +1 fight for Michael because it just fits with his story, he goes on a zealous rampage. He still gets the sanity healing which helps out a lot as well. His base will is 4, so he can just keep his slider there and benefit from the +1 fight. It makes perfect sense to me. The fact that is base fight moves up to 7 is no big deal to me, there's at least one other investigators that has a 4-7 progression.

4. I have gone over it again and again, and I don't see what you're talking about here. To my mind it is certainly no more broken than -1 to all sanity costs, and it requires his lore to be at 6. It just beefs up his spellcasting in a way that is unique.

5. Point taken here. I hadn't realized how difficult Mandy's was to pass.

6. I have a lot more to stew about with Gloria. I think +1 fight is particularly bland, so I'll probably beef up both the pass condition and the pass benefits.

7. Focus is the only thing that makes sense for the story itself, much like with Mark. You're right though in the fact that his is pathetically easy to pass. So, another one I'm not entirely sure about.

8. To my mind, a +1 will makes a lot more thematic sense than a +1 sanity with Zoey. As for replacing the +1 sanity instead of the +1 fight, see Michael. It's a mostly fair trade-off with sanity coming out maybe only slightly ahead, but I think it's ok. And, pious or delusional....it's anyone's guess (nutcase )

So I actually spent some time thinking about Hank, Jenny, and Vincent, and here's what I've brainstormed.

HANK: The bumpkin is wandering through the worst town he’s never seen at the worst possible time to be doing so, looking for his missing Pa, who's obviously been abducted. Presumably, the five Clues he needs to gather are the leads he needs to follow to locate Pa. Since Hank is about as sharp as a sack of wet mice, I’m betting these leads came from punching someone out, and then punching the next someone out, and so on. Since monster trophies are Hank’s general specialty, and his failure is “learning fear”, I propose something like this:

When Hank defeats a Cultist, Deep One Hybrid, Witch, High Priest, or Priest of Dagon, place the trophy on this card. If Hank passes a Horror Check and defeats that monster, place the trophy on this card. When there are at least 5 (6? 10?) toughness of Monster Trophies including 1 Cultist on this card, pass story (and keep the trophies).

This forces Hank to keep any fear in check while still playing to his brawling type, adds some difficulty randomization with the Monster Cup, and avoids needing Clues at all.

Wordy, yes. Clever, maybe. Balanced, who knows.

JENNY: Same as Hank, really. She’s following Clues to her sister’s sacrificial ritual before time runs out. This is still pretty easy to do, and Isabelle is a very good Ally for Jenny’s stats, but the cost sucks. So...ditch the cost and increase the difficulty somehow:

Upkeep: While Jenny has 3 or more Clue Tokens, make a Luck (-#) [#] Check (probably once per turn). If successful, place one of her Clues on this card. Upkeep: If Jenny has a Cultist Trophy and 3 Clues on this card while at the Unvisited Isle, return the Cultist trophy to the Cup to pass story (keep the 3 Clues).

The implication is that Jenny, being smarter (and prettier) than Hank, is searching for leads with her wits and her…uh…assets. The Luck Check is the degree at which she can locate “relevant” information this way. As to the Cultist cost…either a show of strength (“…or share his fate!”), a hostage exchange, or something.

I’m actually a wee bit proud of that one. I hope it’s at least inspirational.

VINCENT: So Vincent is violating general medical law and heading into the streets as some kind of “mobile Free Clinic”. His story is forcing him to be a strict pacifist, which is giving me strange leaps of logic. Is he, say, trying to heal some poor kid from turning into a monster or something? He succeeds, kid lives, he fails, kid dies, Vincent gets a monster trophy? It seems to me that the best way to handle this is to use his actual ability:

When Vincent uses his Physician ability on an investigator other than himself, place a Clue Token on this card. When Vincent gains a Clue Token off the board, he may make a Lore (-#) [#] Check to place it on this card. Arkham Encounter Phase: If Vincent has 5 (6? 8?) Clues on this card while in the Hospital at the end of the Phase, discard 1 Clue and pass story.

Vincent is investigating something medically, and trying to think outside the box with his strange field results. When he’s finally figured it out, he will burst into the Hospital with those results and pass them off for whatever serum or treatment necessary (that’s the single Clue he’s giving up). I kinda think that Vincent should also fail his story if he ever runs afoul of the authorities (arrested) while on this mission of his, but maybe that’s too 1990’s for Arkham.

Now what do we do about Rex?

Those are all well thought out. My only issue is that they're considerably more complicated, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.. I just want them to be in line with the others. I've documented them and will probably give them a try to see how it goes the next time anyone plays with those investigators. As for Rex, I haven't spent that much time looking over him, my first impression was that he was set up pretty well, but what say you?

How about this for Vincent?

Each time that Vincent uses his Physician ability to restore the Stamina of another investigator, place a token on this card. If there are two tokens on this card, place The Doctor Is In in play.

The Doctor Is In: Vincent receives 2 extra movement points each turn. His Physician ability is replaced with the Medical Care ability of St. Mary's Hospital. Investigators who are knocked unconscious may choose to move to Vincent's location instead of to St. Mary's.

Essentially, once Vincent passes his story he can restore 1 Stamina for free to each investigator at his location. In addition, an investigator at his location may spend $2 to be restored to full Stamina. Thematically, you could say that Vincent works pro bono, but the medical supplies that he uses cost $2.

avec said:

I like it, it's actually more flavorful than his regular one, although I'd probably increase the token count - it seems a bit too easy to pass.

Thanks! I playtested it with three tokens, but Vincent wasn't able to collect them all. It was very hard for him to reach the other investigators while he's limping around town with a movement of three. It might have been easier if there had been a large number of investigators on the board, increasing the odds that another investigator would be nearby.

I'm considering letting Vincent start with a Mi-go Brain Case, though that might make him too powerful (strange as that sounds).

You could try making it scaleable, requiring tokens equal to half the investigators in the game.

Good idea. If it was half the number of investigators rounded down, it would take care of a problem that I hadn't noticed, which is that he couldn't pass his story if he was the only investigator in the game. If the number of tokens scaled to half the number of investigators, then Vincent would need 0 tokens if he was playing solo, allowing him to autopass at the beginning of the game. It's a little cheesy, but not as cheesy as it would be if he could never pass his story. Plus if Vincent is playing solo he's probably in deep trouble anyway, so autopassing his story may help to balance things out.

Edit: I should add "While Vincent is in Arkham" to the beginning of The Doctor Is In. Otherwise unconscious investigators could move to The Plateau of Leng if Vincent was there.

avec said:

Cheaper medical insurance over there! ::laughing::