I'm putting together a custom campaign for our gaming group, using official published missions that we've not played yet, with a storyline of my own to tie those missions together. (The campaign won't be happening until the pandemic is over... so plenty of time to answer this question... though this forum is closing soon, so not so much!)

The only rules change I'm going to make is that in the final mission (which will be Desperate Hour from the Core Set), I want to swap out the regular Royal Guard and elite Trandoshan Hunters in that mission, for regular and elite Dark Troopers , to act as end-of-campaign surprise bad guys and a real "end of game boss" feel to the mission as a whole.

For models I will be using the Star Wars Miniatures Dark Trooper Phase III, meaning these particular Dark Troopers will be based more closely on their Dark Forces incarnation of old than their more recent and infamous appearance in The Mandalorian . Fine margins though as they're clearly the same thing. (I've ordered the models off eBay but they've not yet arrived, their base looks quite large though, so I might have to swap that out so they fit in one space on an Imperial Assault tile).

So the design parameters for my Dark Troopers are as follows. These restrictions must be met, other thoughts are more open to interpretation:

• Two figures per group.
• Small figures (i.e. fit in a single space).
• Regular Dark Troopers to cost 8 points and be about as powerful as regular Royal Guard.
• Elite Dark Troopers to cost 10 points and be about as powerful as elite Trandoshan Hunters.
• Reflect the abilities of Dark Troopers (Phase III) as shown in Dark Forces in particular, but also The Mandalorian or whatever other sources there may be.
• Can use Campaign-only abilities if necessary. I won't need to use these units in Skirmish.
• I'll have limited scope for playtesting - I want the first time my gaming group to see these figures to be in that campaign mission.
• But, I obviously don't want these units to be massively over- or under-powered... hence seeking the wisdom of the hive mind.

My initial stab at this (really just a first draft) is as follows. I'd be very keen to hear your feedback on how well you think they meet the parameters above, and suggestions for what I might change or improve.

Hopefully you can see what I'm getting at. They're mobile, to represent their jet packs, but not particularly fast. They're tough, with +1 block (regular) or even an entire extra black dice (elite), and the ability to reduce Pierce makes that even harder to get past. Their ranged attack packs a punch with a red dice, but it's only two dice and the surge results are pretty ordinary, though a reroll gives them reliability. I can see these being powerful in battle, but something the Heroes can deal with - much like Royal Guard or eTrandos.

An obvious shortcoming: none of their abilities are unique. I'd be very happy to give them something that's just for them, but I'm conscious that's where it's easy to accidentally end up with something vastly OP. Ideas welcome though.

Thoughts?

I like your thematic abilities, but I do think they are OP currently.

Looking at the regulars' defensive abilities, they have 16 health for 8 threat. I think that's the best ratio in the game, but you are tossing on an extra block on top of that. That's powerful. Then, they negate pierce 1 as well? I'd say they are the most defensive group in the game (unless you count your elite version). I think you can drop the +1 block and they'd still be a tough group.

As for their abilities on offense, I think it looks good. I'd give the elites a +2 damage surge though. Honestly, blue-red doesn't roll that many surges anyway and elites should always look better.

For the other abilities, mobile is a really good ability and the droid and trooper keywords have some powerful synergies with the right class decks. You said you wanted them to be slow, but a speed of 4 and mobile don't fit that. What about leaning into that weakness with a speed of 3 as a drawback from these other great abilities?

Currently, I would not want to face these troopers as a Rebel. I'd probably just tank their damage and move on instead of trying to get past all that defense and high health.

Broadly I agree with player678037's assessment, though not necessarily the conclusion that they are overpowered.

They have generous health for the cost, plus excellent defence: either iteration will be extremely hard to kill. On the otherhand their offensive capabilities are not that impressive. A single blue dice for range, even with a re-roll, will limit their offensive capabilities. The red dice is nice, but they are not going to consistently roll 2 surges across the two dice (and have a fair chance of not rolling any), again even with the re-roll.

I think players will be able to play around them once they realise that they are hard to kill, but not all that dangerous. So, for me, not over powered. Is this what you were aiming for?

Possible changes would be to add a surge for +1 or +2 range. Maybe reduce the defensive cababilities if the range surge is added (lose the +1 block from the regular, lose the second dice from the elite and add the +1 block).

Another thought to play with the theme and keep all the good stats. Deploy them exhausted because they have to charge up.

On 1/24/2021 at 5:08 AM, player678037 said:

I like your thematic abilities, but...

23 hours ago, Alastairk said:

Broadly I agree with player678037's assessment, though....

Thanks both for your really useful feedback.

A few things I think worth responding to... first just to explain my thinking on the points you raise (not to disagree, just to share what I was thinking).

Attack

So in both the Dark Forces video game, and The Mandalorian, Dark Troopers were super tough and really threatening and straight-up the most powerful enemies in the game - good at everything. Even if(!) one were to decide that was an OK way to represent the unit on the game board, that would have to cost a lot more points than other units, which doesn't meet my design restrictions for this unit (described in the OP). Given that their most recent appearance, and the one I'm guessing my players know best, was in Mando, where they were shown as nearly indestructible until *cough*spoiler*cough*, I decided I'd focus on their toughness.

Don't get me wrong, a blue/red attack is nothing to sniff at, red dice never are; but it's only two dice, the surge abilities aren't that great and they won't get many surges anyway, etc. Compared to rRG (with Stun and easy Focus, albeit melee, but Speed 5 and Reach) or eTrandos (with up to +3 fixed damage/strain and easy Focus), blue/red is definitely not quite as good. And that's intentional.

(Oh, and it's been pointed out to me that Targeting Computer would be more thematic for a droid than Squad Training, and is only a tiny bit better; barely at all, in practice - it's not like the Imperial player has a shortage of Troopers at their disposal).

Defence

If they're to be better at defence than attack, then, just how tough should they be? 8 Health for regular and 10 for elite is the same as Royal Guard, who are tough but well-accepted in the game, and I'd already decided that the Dark Troopers would need to be a bit tougher than that, to make up for an ordinary attack. Giving them even more health would be one way of representing their resilience... but quite boring. It's just a bigger number for the Heroes to chip away at. So how else to make them tougher?

An extra block for Regular, and a whole extra black dice for Elite (the AT-ST being the only other non-unique unit in the game with two defence dice), seemed just the ticket and a good way to make them noticeably and remarkably different to other units, which usually give elite units a better attack. Now, remembering where I will be using these in the campaign (i.e. only the finale), the heroes will be tooled up and dishing out lots of damage. All that health and those blocks are powerful, but not undefeatable for Rebels with various 4 XP skills and 1000+ credit weapons! So there will be three-dice attacks, maybe some Pierce 2 or even Pierce 3 if one of the Jedi are around, all kinds of crazy damage-dealing abilities, etc. I felt like a Pierce reduction might be needed to keep them alive, and again, it's very unusual.

Put it this way: as general-purpose open groups that the Imperial player could take from the introductory mission onwards, yeah, arguably this might be a bit much. But then early missions tend not to feature eTrandos too often, either.

Speed

I felt like Mobile was basically compulsory for something with a jetpack (see Jet Troopers, Boba Fett, etc.). But I didn't want them to be fast. Speed 4 is average, therefore not-fast... but I can see there's an argument for Speed 3 to be even more so. (Re-watching Mando, these things are scary because they are relentless, nothing stops them. But they don't run at you).

What a few people have said, though, is that if these things are to be very tough, but only ordinary in attack, then they still need something of a weakness. Speed 3 might kind of be considered a weakness, until you look at where they are deployed on the mission map (again, remember I have a specific use for them in mind) - between 3 spaces movement (with Mobile) and their minimum range of 2 for a blue dice, Speed 3 isn't going to hurt them. There needs to be more.

Now... two people have both (completely independently) suggested that they deploy exhausted, to represent the time taken to charge up (very apparent in Mando). I love this idea! ... or I would, were it not for the specific mission I intend to use them in (remember my design parameters). The regular unit would be deployed at the start of the mission, right next to the heroes; and if deployed exhausted, the hero players would first simply eliminate the active stuff, then pick off the Dark Troopers with everything they have left. There's not even a decision to make. The elite unit, OTOH, are basically the last scripted deployment in the mission, and will probably happen late in the game - maybe turn 5, 6, or even 7 out of a 7-turn mission - so if they deploy exhausted, they might get to activate only once or twice, or even not at all! In both cases, it's not so much a weakness for balance, as simply dooming them to not doing anything.

So, what weakness to give them?

I still like the idea of representing that they take time to charge up, giving others the chance to do something. The most obvious existing ability for that is Greedo's Slow on the Draw. With Greedo, it gives his target the chance to eliminate him before he attacks them (we all know who shot first). These guys are too tough for that to happen. However... I still think it could be interesting in a different way. The hero players will be hitting these things with everything they've got, and with blocks and black dice and Pierce reduction I think they'll be hurting them, but only chipping away... "our weapons are useless!". Ah, maybe. But what if you get to attack these things for free , every time they themselves make an attack? It might still feel like you're doing nothing to them, but actually they're gradually dying... and next thing you know, one of them only has a couple of health left and you realise that one more attack, or maybe a blast or cleave, might finish them off. And then it's something to celebrate, because they seemed so tough!

Next iteration

With that all in mind... how about this? Their attack and defence haven't changed much, but they are slower and have a major weakness, which actually makes their main strength a little less overwhelming. What do you think? (I've actually had some feedback that with their powerful defence mitigated by giving away free attacks, they need a stronger attack themselves; maybe a green dice. That seems to me to risk making them "good at everything". Thoughts?)

I like the update, particularly Slow on the Draw. It gives some of that Terminator flavour the Mando episode had.

I think that looks like a better balance. If you are using them in such a specific instance, a lot will really depend on that. Good luck with the game!

Thanks guys! Still open to further refinement if anyone has suggestions.