Do you think the Signature Vehicle talents from Rigger (Modder has a couple as well) could apply to jet packs?

Sure.

2 hours ago, RLogue177 said:

Do you think the Signature Vehicle talents from Rigger (Modder has a couple as well) could apply to jet packs?

Technically, no. Jetpacks aren't a vehicle, a jetpack quote "allows the character to operate as a vehicle" en quote.

I would not be likely to allow it either, as it doesn't make a lot of narrative sense, in my opinion, besides being contrary to both the letter and intent of the rules.

A general follow-up (if you like the idea of jetpacks being a vehicle, which I kinda do)...

How many hard points do you think a jetpack has, if any? None are listed because jetpacks are found in the gear section of books instead of the vehicle section.

Would one use Tinker, or Custom Loadout to add more hard points?

I wouldn't have HP on them, that's what your arms and legs are imo. Some of the Rigger Talents would be a wash, like the vacuum seal thing, since you're also the 'hull'. I think 'Fancy Paintjob' works awesome. You in your chrome jetpack with flames painted on it, wearing it everywhere even when not appropriate, and of course always talking about it....

In defense of liking jetpacks classified as vehicles:

The way they're written, no, jetpacks are not a vehicle; you operate as a vehicle . But what is the difference between, say, a speeder bike and a jetpack? One you get on to ride, and one you strap to your back and ride. The only difference in the rules that I can see is that speeder bikes have a Hull Trauma rating, Armor rating, and Defense ratings. For jetpacks, I think those are all there, they are just all set to 0. Jetpacks have System Strain Threshold - only vehicles have that, right?

Could you have a wee, Silhouette 0 speeder bike that you lay on and is only roughly the size of your torso? What if instead of laying on it, you strap it to your back and it has a 300m altitude limit (which is less than many swoop bikes)?

Just like a speeder bike has a HT, so does the jetpack. Set at 0, it is pretty fragile. Fortified Vacuum Seal would give the jetpack (not the rider) HT 1. Just like it would add 1 to a speeder bike's HT.

Bolstered Armor would give the jetpack (again, not the rider) Armor 1.

The only talent that sounds weird to me here is Reinforced Frame. The Signature Vehicle gains the Massive 1 quality. But since your Signature Vehicle could be a speeder bike... Really, Massive 1 just make it one Advantage harder to crit your vehicle, so maybe it just "sounds weird" but is okay.

To be fair, I have not run a lot of vehicular combat in this system. So I do have a question that could certainly change my line of thinking. When you attack someone on a speeder bike, are you attacking the rider, or the bike? Or do you choose when you're making the attack, and you can attack either at your option?

1 hour ago, RLogue177 said:

To be fair, I have not run a lot of vehicular combat in this system. So I do have a question that could certainly change my line of thinking. When you attack someone on a speeder bike, are you attacking the rider, or the bike? Or do you choose when you're making the attack, and you can attack either at your option?

You attack the vehicle. I increase the difficulty when targeting the trooper to require a Called Shot, which takes a Maneuver and adds 2 Setback.

1 hour ago, RLogue177 said:

The way they're written, no, jetpacks are not a vehicle; you operate as a vehicle . But what is the difference between, say, a speeder bike and a jetpack? One you get on to ride, and one you strap to your back and ride. The only difference in the rules that I can see is that speeder bikes have a Hull Trauma rating, Armor rating, and Defense ratings. For jetpacks, I think those are all there, they are just all set to 0. Jetpacks have System Strain Threshold - only vehicles have that, right?

Could you have a wee, Silhouette 0 speeder bike that you lay on and is only roughly the size of your torso? What if instead of laying on it, you strap it to your back and it has a 300m altitude limit (which is less than many swoop bikes)?

When you change the jetpack to become a vehicle in its own right, you break the system. It's not intended to work that way. When you make it a vehicle, you can mount Attachments on it, it becomes a separate target, talents that aren't supposed to apply suddenly apply, and the narrative justification is thrown out the window.

And there are no speeder bikes like that, so it's a non sequitur. They are two different things, separate in category and nature.

I mean, if you want to, go for it, but I think it's a really bad idea. I'm not against houserules or homebrews, but this is extremely violative of how the system is supposed to work.

3 hours ago, RLogue177 said:

In defense of liking jetpacks classified as vehicles:...........

The vehicle rules don't play well with the personal combat rules in the game period. I'd say run with it, apply the Talents that make sense, ignore the ones that don't . Honestly strapping a jet engine just above your rectum and getting into a gun fight is all about wanting your character to die spectacularly anyway...

7 hours ago, RLogue177 said:

The way they're written, no, jetpacks are not a vehicle; you operate as a vehicle . But what is the difference between, say, a speeder bike and a jetpack?

Similarly though, a Purgill is a creature that would operate as a vehicle for movement purposes. But that wouldn't make it a vehicle. You can't add hardpoints or up the speed of one just because (if you had one) it would use the speed rules and planetary/space range bands.

8 hours ago, RLogue177 said:

To be fair, I have not run a lot of vehicular combat in this system. So I do have a question that could certainly change my line of thinking. When you attack someone on a speeder bike, are you attacking the rider, or the bike? Or do you choose when you're making the attack, and you can attack either at your option?

You attack the bike, not the person. If you want to attack the rider, you could justify using the called shot rules, but there's nothing explict about allowing you to target the crew of vehicles. With a jetpack, whilst you operate as a vehicle for movement purposes, you still attack the person, not the 'vehicle'.

I could see knocking off the rider of a swoop with two Triumphs on an attack. That’s certainly disabling a vital component.

On 1/14/2021 at 8:20 AM, 2P51 said:

The vehicle rules don't play well with the personal combat rules in the game period. I'd say run with it, apply the Talents that make sense, ignore the ones that don't . Honestly strapping a jet engine just above your rectum and getting into a gun fight is all about wanting your character to die spectacularly anyway...

Main reason why I just allow people with Jetpacks to move in 3 dimensions with their personal scale movement when in pure personal scale encounters with an option to use one piloting check action to move almost anywhere once. That way we skip all the strange interactions with vehicle speed and personal scale, wierd piloting checks and all the special maneuvers. And they are still good enough to use them.