Question on ATTACK ORDER

By NeonKnight, in Star Wars: Armada

From the RULES, the steps are:

1: Declare Target

2: Role Attack Dice:

3: Resolve Attack Effects

4: Spend Defence Tokens

5: Resolve Damage.

While I understand at the heart of it the order, the question comes in on how certain 'corner-cases'

Lets say for argument's sake I have a ship attacking at medium Range another ship and am rolling 2 red dice. One comes up Blank, and the other comes up as a single hit.

the Defender has two defence tokens: Evade and Redirect .

Can the defender use the Evade Token to force the attacker to reroll the red die and wait to see the effect before spending the Redirect or does the defender have to use both and possibly 'waste' the Redirect if the re-rolled Red Die comes up blank?

Thanx, and sad to see the 'official' forums go away as only makes sense for a game company to have a place to ask 'Official Questions'

Yes, you can see the result of your evade before spending additional defense tokens.

Evade resolves immediately (evade, scatter and contain all resolve before the next step in the attack sequence, in fact), and defense tokens are not spent simultaneously.

My understanding was that defense token usage all had to be declared at the same time. Such as declaring that I'm spending a Redirect at the same time I declare I'm spending an Evade, though they resolve at different times.

Edit: sorry! Totally my error; Jabbawookie is correct.

Edited by Irate Pooka
1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Yes, you can see the result of your evade before spending additional defense tokens.

Evade resolves immediately (evade, scatter and contain all resolve before the next step in the attack sequence, in fact), and defense tokens are not spent simultaneously.

OK, thanx...sometimes I really wish the rules would make note of some of these effects.

Of course this then opens a different kettle of fish and now a new hypothesis.

Let Us Imagine the attacker now has rolled three dice and gets BLANK, DOUBLE HIT, DOUBLE HIT.

The defender then chooses to utilise the Evade and see what the result is before opting to use the Redirect (again, hoping for a Blank reroll).

The Attacker then rolls an Accuracy . Obviously the Accuracy cannot target the Evade, but can now target the Redirect , yes?

2 hours ago, NeonKnight said:

The Attacker then rolls an Accuracy . Obviously the Accuracy cannot target the Evade, but can now target the Redirect , yes?

No, because Spend Defense Token step happens after Modify Attack Dice step, so the Attacker can no longer spend dice to block tokens.

Accuracies are (usually) worthless if rerolled into because of an Evade.

Edited by BiggsIRL

2 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

No, because Spend Defense Token step happens after Modify Attack Dice step, so the Attacker can no longer spend tokens .

Accuracies are (usually) worthless if rerolled into because of an Evade.

Kinda confused me there, had to look back at the rules, but it is ACCURACY ICONS , Attacker doesn;t have tokens ;)

OK, I see what you are saying, does this pertain to the CRITICAL effect? I would say no, as that is handled in Step 5.

Which leads to another question, but with Regards to the Contain Critical token. If the Attacker rolls 2 CRITICAL ICONS, but also has the ASSAULT CONCUSSION MISSILES card or the ASSAULT PROTON TORPEDO , the defence token has no effect if the player opts to use the card as the rules state:

Contain : If the defender is a ship, the attacker is prevented from
resolving the standard critical effect. The attacker can still resolve a
non-standard critical effect, such as one granted by an upgrade card.

8 minutes ago, NeonKnight said:

OK, I see what you are saying, does this pertain to the CRITICAL effect? I would say no, as that is handled in Step 5.

If the Evade makes your opponent roll a critical, then he can trigger a critical effect because as you said, the critical effects are resolved during step 5 (after spending defense tokens).

8 minutes ago, NeonKnight said:

Which leads to another question, but with Regards to the Contain Critical token. If the Attacker rolls 2 CRITICAL ICONS, but also has the ASSAULT CONCUSSION MISSILES card or the ASSAULT PROTON TORPEDO , the defence token has no effect if the player opts to use the card as the rules state:

Contain doesn't work outside the standard critical effect by default. That's the whole point of the "Damage Control Officer" upgrade, which lets you use the contain token to prevent any critical effect.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86
35 minutes ago, NeonKnight said:

Kinda confused me there, had to look back at the rules, but it is ACCURACY ICONS , Attacker doesn;t have tokens ;)

OK, I see what you are saying, does this pertain to the CRITICAL effect? I would say no, as that is handled in Step 5.

Your opponent gets to do his rerolls and spend accuracies and set dice to certain icons and add dice and such in any order he chooses.

Then you get to use the evade token to reroll immediately, the scatter token to cancel all attack dice immediately, the contain token to preemptively prevent the standard crit. And you can use other effects like Lando or Brunson. And you also spend those defense tokens that actually take effect later: brace, salvo, redirect. All of this occurs in any order you choose.

At this point, the attacker works with whatever he has showing on those dice. The unspent accuracies aren’t usually useful because the window to spend or reroll them was two steps ago (but they still exist and are useful for, say, SW-7s.) The crits are needed for standard or special critical effects, because this is the time he triggers them if they aren’t blocked by contain. This is one reason why the defender might spend a contain against ACM or the like; it won’t stop the special crit, but the attacker now can’t resolve the standard face up crit effect instead.

Hope this helps.

6 hours ago, NeonKnight said:

Kinda confused me there, had to look back at the rules, but it is ACCURACY ICONS , Attacker doesn;t have tokens ;)

OK, I see what you are saying, does this pertain to the CRITICAL effect? I would say no, as that is handled in Step 5.

Which leads to another question, but with Regards to the Contain Critical token. If the Attacker rolls 2 CRITICAL ICONS, but also has the ASSAULT CONCUSSION MISSILES card or the ASSAULT PROTON TORPEDO , the defence token has no effect if the player opts to use the card as the rules state:

Contain : If the defender is a ship, the attacker is prevented from
resolving the standard critical effect. The attacker can still resolve a
non-standard critical effect, such as one granted by an upgrade card.

It should be noted that there ARE times when the Standard Critical Effect is more desirable than any available Non-standard Critical Effect. The defender must choose to use his Contain or not during the Spend Defense Tokens step, and if he does, then the only Critical Effect the attacker may declare is a nonstandard one, if available. Also note that under normal circumstances, only ONE critical effect, standard or otherwise, may be declared by the attacker. If you throw a black and two blues, and have Heavy Ion Emplacements and Assault Concussion Missiles equipped, and your dice come up as follows:

Black: hit/crit

Blue: crit

Blue: crit

... you have three options for Critical Effects (Standard Critical, Heavy Ion Emplacements, Assault Concussion Missiles), but may only choose one. If the defender spends a Contain, then you’re limited to choosing ACM’s or HIE’s, but cannot choose the Standard Critical Effect.

Note that in addition to the aforementioned Damage Control Officer (Officer Upgrade which expands the function of Contain tokens to affect ALL Critical Effects), you should have a quick look at the Weapons Team upgrade Fire-Control Team, which allows you to resolve one additional Critical Effect.