timing question with regards to the rod of ruin and other instant play items

Can some one in response to character 1 playing acquisition spell use the rod of ruin or another instant use item insted of having it stolen? If so i would assume that the spell caster can choose a different target?

Please clarify if possible.

Thanks

First of all, to avoid the “Faster person's draw goes first”, we go by Last In, First Out. We roll off if there are ties between 2+ players.

Meaning, Spell A is played. Ability B is done in response. Item C is then done.

Order of Play = C, B, A.

This is why, if you play Finger of Death, then your opponent plays Counterspell, the order is = Counterspell, then Finger of Death… which means, no FoD since CS went first.

Second, we play that the object of a Spell / Ability / etc… cannot be the target of anything else and is locked by the ability. You can only affect the last spell / ability used, not the original target.

I.e. If the Rod is being Acquisitioned, or stolen, or claimed as a reward, etc… you cannot alchemise it, use it, since it cannot be the target of anything else.

BUT…

… the spell that grabs it can be.

Or, said another way, If someone casts acquisition on your rod, you cannot use the rod, alchemise the rod, whatever the rod… BUT… you can cast Counterspell on the acquisition spell. Then, someone can affect only your Counterspell, and so on.

If you need a visual medium for understanding, imagine the foe “Force pulls” the rod from your hands (using Acquisition), and you “Force pull” it back to yourself with Counterspell. However, since the rod is flying through the air this whole time, you can’t do anything with it until it comes back to your hand next round.

Timing is always muddy, but I hope this helps.

can any one confirm any of this please!

Thanks

Moggle121 said:

I think you can't.

Consider the case in which I cast acqusition on you and you, somehow, CONSUME the item I want to acquire. In the case that was your ONLY item, I would have an illegal target after the spell is resolved!!

This is of course very unfair.

The only way out an "acquistion" spell is a counterspell.

any one else have feedback?

Tons-Home-rules said:

That's Voice of Truth. Listen it. LIFO is one of the best mechanics that can solve the timing problems, when on the stack is many effects and You don't know, which one should be first.

firstly this is not Magic the gathering or any other collectable card game, as as such THERE IS NO STACK

the spell happens immeadiatly, there is no chance of using said item or having any other ability to use said item. the spell can only be countered by another spell such as counter spell, reflection or the like. if not countered then it happens.

ososober said:

The problem I have with no stack, is that it becomes a Real Life shouting speed match. I want to cast an “At Any Time” spell. But, because I’m old / slow / arthritic / whatever, the 14 Y.O. in front of me casts his/her own “At Any Time” first, because s/he’s faster to the card on the table, faster to yell “SPELL” or whatever.

Magic the Gathering is not the terrible bugbear people make it out to be. “Last In, First Out” is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with 2+ “At Any Time” spells, removes the Whack-A-Mole style of playing cards, and really simplifies life. I cast a spell. You cast a spell on top of it. Player 3 drops a spell on top of that. I cast my second spell. Order? My Spell-2. Player-3 spell. Player-2 spell. My Spell-1. Doesn’t get much simpler than that, and you don’t have the arguments over the “At Any Time” thing.

And, I do believe, no-where in the rules is there an official “What to do when 2 ‘At Any Time’ spells are being cast”. Dam, our resident Rule God to comment, please, if I’m wrong. Thanks. Either way, though, do what you want. It’s your game. As per my board name, I’ll do LIFO no matter what, since it’s a MUCH calmer and pleasant game that way. At least for us.

Talisman is not played like Magic the Gathering! Last in with a Spell, first out with a Spell is just a ridiculous idea. Spells in Talisman do not work in this manner.

Players 1 casts a Spell on his turn. Player 2 wishes to cast a Spell, but he can only do this if it is a Spell which counters the first Spell. This also applies to player 3.

In other words, player 1's Spell takes effect before any other Spells can be cast (unless they are Counterspells or Reflection). Once this has occurred, another Spell can be cast by a player if he so chooses.

First in with a Spell, first out with a Spell is the correct way to play Spells in Talisman.

To resolve 2 or more players wishing to cast Spells at the same time, use the following method:

To get a Spell in first, a player must say out loud that he is "Spellcasting". The first player to declare this, has the right to cast his Spell first of all.

Example:

Player 1 wants to cast Random on player 2, and player 2 wants to cast Random on player 1! The first player to say "Spellcasting" casts his Spell. The Random Spell must be fully resolved, before the other player can cast his Random Spell.

How difficult can it be to say the word "Spellcasting" before another player says it??? Easy!!!

Regards,

Ell.

I would like to hear official ruling from FF on this as we play LIFO for the simple fact that if you dont then you open up a whole can of worms on what really happened when multiple things go off. Your obvious disdain for Magic the Gathering is only going to cause problems which can only be solved by Last in First out rule. Talisman is a turn based game not a RTS, so please leave out real time casting and instead 'turnify' any rules debates.

talismanamsilat said:

Absolutely agree.

Anything else muddies understanding & is far too open for interpretation/argument.

CobraCommander said:

Also not only Spells are being cast at any moment, other cards as well. LIFO solves the problem, what source has priority - if Gypsy or Spell Call. For me Spell Call. Gypsy ability is a triggered ability - it is always going to the stack as first, then player is eventually casting Spell Call. Spell Call resolves first and takes given Spell, then Gypsy ability resolves but there is no Spell that she would be able to take.

Also, casting Counterspell is also LIFO. Player A is casting Mesmerism. Player B is casting Spell Call. Player C is casting Counterspell targeting Player's B Counterspell. Player D (again) is a Gipsy. Stack is:

1) Mesmerism

2) Gipsy's ability

3) Spell Call

4) Counterspell

Counterspell resolves first, so Spell Call has no effect, so Gipsy takes the Mesmerism. I want to point - all that 4 effects are resolved in exactly same moment. Only LIFO can solve what to resolve first.

===

I also think that LIFO is a great mechanics for a Talisman - game based on rounds, turns, phases and steps. Also LIFO is not only MtG - sure that game uses it but not only it. I think Talisman also should use.

Moggle121 said:

I should say that if player 1 want to steal the rod of ruin with the acquisition spell, then player 2 can;t use the rod of ruin anymore.

You are to late then..

The same is if you have a alchemist and that player want to turn a object in gold that the winning player wants.

Player A casts Mesmerism. Player B casts Spell Call, Player C casts Counterspell (which will only negate Spell Call) and Player D is playing the Gypsy.

The correct sequence is as follows:

1: Counterspell negates Spell Call.

2: Player B must discard Spell Call which the Gypsy may take and then player C must discard Counterspell which again the Gypsy may take.

3: Player A may take the Follower of his choice from the player he cast Mesmerism upon (as it still works) and then he must discard the Mesmerism Spell.

4: The Gypsy may take the Mesmerism Spell.

This is based on the rule in the rulebook which states that a Spell is discarded once its effect has ended and the wording on each individual Spell card !!!

Ell.

talismanamsilat said:

Sorry Ell, just to make things clear.

Let's take out the Counterspell from this example and we'll see the supposed timing problem.

1. Player A casts Mesmerism, takes a Follower and discards the Spell card.

2. The Gypsy may take the Mesmerism Spell with her ability, but player B casts Spell Call to take it before. Who goes first?

As I play, the first to declare that he uses something, either player B Spell Call or the Gypsy's Ability, takes the Spell. LIFO won't work here, since it will make the Spell Call cards completely useless in a game with the Gypsy. Just think of this: you say "I cast Spell Call", the Gypsy player says "I take that Spell" and he/she has priority... I will do this every time I can, just to upset players using Spell Call.

Unless you do as Nemomon says and consider Special abilities as "triggered". But this is not true, since you choose to use an Ability in Talisman, they don't work automatically and it's arbitrary to give them a timing priority (and less priority in solving).

The_Warlock said:

Spell Call always takes priority over the Gypsy, due to the fact that the original Spell is not placed on the discard pile when Spell Call has been cast upon it and Spell Call is cast immediately after the original Spell has been cast. However a player may not cast Spell Call when the original Spell has already been placed on the discard pile. The Gypsy may then pick up the Spell!

Ell.

Right Elliott, I forgot that the Spell Call text is slightly different from the Gypsy's ability. The Spell Call always goes first, so no doubt here.