What are your thoughts on these? Should they be implemented in to our next game? We currently play with leaders, shock troops, either Imperial II or SE SCs, artifacts, and alternate objectives. I would like to implement space mines and facilities in our next game, but I am a bit concerned that the mines may lead to turtling.

They are both fun and limited. They make cruisers much better and intimidates people from attacking you. They only hit on a 9 or 10 but every ship has to take a roll. Ultimately it seems to serve the game well and helps spice things up tactically. Turtling on an artifact square is natural and usually plays a pivotal role in end-game. They rock and I shudder to think of how crappy cruisers were before them.

We only used Space Mines once. Within the first few turns they had all been placed in a few players' home systems and then we were out of tokens, so no more. Nobody bothered going after those particular home systems and so the mines played relatively little role in the game. It's hard to say if they encourage tutrtling. Some of our players felt more secure and so left a smaller contingent of ships behind to defend mined systems.

Refineries and Colonies we've used in a few games. I use the term "used" loosely because they rarely actually got purchased, but we did say they were available. Whether people forgot about them or whether they just didn't think an extra resource/influence was worth the cost is hard to say. Part of it may also have an unwillingness to spend resources improving a planet that may later fall to an enemy.

In all, these are interesting options, but they aren't really game changers. Use them if you like flavour, they might change tactics on a small scale, but they don't really change the overall experience of the game too much.

They do change the tactics when you have them on mecatol and one hits the admiral's ship while you have a direct hit in your hand. Frankley I find it hard to believe that everyone would want mines so early game when they could be expanding more thru carriers/ground forces. In our games it kind of establishes your border because that's what cruisers are good at anyways. Then you move a cruiser with you to the warzone(usually Mecatol) and build a mine. Not sure about rules on this but we have previously allowed people to get rid of one of their mines in a different system and then re-buy that if we are out of tokens. Think of how awesome these are for the Nalu and their fleeing ability!

Shadowplay said:

Well I guess it's a question of how you use them then. Not really a surprise. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to voluntarily destroy them just like ships (I would certainly allow it), but since that only happens in the Status Phase there's always a chance someone else will beat you in the order of play and build that mine before you can, so you'd want to be careful about how often you do that.

Couple things...

Space mines are not technically units so I don't think you can scuttle them.

Also, Direct Hit does not apply during space mine rolls as Direct Hit can only be used while in a space battle.

As a side note, Direct Hit does not apply during pds rolls either, since pds come before battle.

Same with abilities like Mentak cruiser fire or the tech Assault Cannon.

I've seen space mines do amazing things... like take out 3 carriers plain outright in one go.

a single space mine can change the outcome of the space battle...it can be a real pain in the ***** and you may lost a lot of nice investments there

Saikoro said:

That's actually what I'm afraid of. If they are extremely effective, then I fear they will encourage turtling.

moony29 said:

I wouldn't say they are extremely effective. Yes, the fact that they get a roll against each ship that enters the system is pretty powerful and can lead to a sizable portion of the attacker's fleet being wiped out, but that's only if they hit. Space mines only score a hit on a 9 or 10 and you only get to roll for one space mine token each time a hostile fleet enters the system (even if there's more than one mine token present, you only roll once for each ship and you only remove one token.)

Also, since space mines aren't units, you are free to move past a system with enemy mines, assuming you have enough movement to do so. Mines don't block movement like (non-fighter) ships do and they only trigger if you enter that system. They can't hit ships in hyperspace (or whatever undefined FTL technology is used in this universe.)

They can certainly be useful if placed well. With good rolls on key engagements they can even turn the tide of a game, but I don't think they're particularly overpowered. As I mentioned in my earlier post, there's always the possibility that you'll plant mines in a system that ends up getting ignored for the rest of the game.

Not a fan of space mines. The main reason is they add too much randomness to a game, and the effect they have can be devastating.

Remember any fighters on a carrier are also lost if the carrier is destroyed. That is too much on one simple die roll, too much importance.

Bill

bnorton916 said:

I think you your fighters can participate in the space battle but destroyed at the end of a space battle. Just like killing your Aircraft Carrier that support planes on a sea battle(for those who played Axis&Aliies). Well we usually use that rule and its kinda fair i think. Just let me know what you think about or if we are correct/wrong.

Saikoro said:

My initial reaction is that you are wrong, because space mines are not a part of space battle, and the only time non-AF fighters can be unsupported is during space battle.

moony29 said:

That's correct. The rules for fighters say the system's capacity must " at all times" be sufficient to support the number of fighters present. There is an exception a little later on that says fighters can survive if capacity changes during a space battle. Outside of a space battle, however, fighters are destroyed as soon as there is not enough capacity in the system. Space Mines trigger "after the PDS Fire step" of an activation. It isn't even a pre-combat effect, it happens entirely before the Space Battle step of an activation, so if a CV goes down due to mines, any fighters who can't get support from somewhere else will go with it. If there were a second half-full CV (GFs or FTs) that survived the mine or a friendly space dock already in system somehow, it could shoulder some of the newly abandoned fighters and prevent their destruction, although in my experience CVs rarely go into battle without being full of something.

I agree with Steve-O, moony, ans bnorton - the only time you can have unsupported fighters is during Space Combat, and the Space Mines step is NOT part of Space Combat. Thus, a carrier that blows up takes its fighters with it.

That make sens. looks like i'll have a chat about this with my group