I'd just like to say we have done a really good job at having some great discussion and not just shouting back and forth. ~We're all grown up now!
Fear of Winter and in-game solutions
Staton said:
I'd just like to say we have done a really good job at having some great discussion and not just shouting back and forth. ~We're all grown up now!
~Screw you Stanton! (and yes, I played the Stanton card). 
Remember when we had that 4/3/4 plot that ended up having no drawbacks? That was pretty annoying for the couple of weeks it was going.
While I don't think this is on par with that situation, I think it has the ability to be. I playtested the plot cycle (usually FOW, RBD, Blockade) against some of my other decks last night (Lanni Shadows, Martell, Bara) and it was pretty impressive. Disclaimer: I hadn't 'meta'd' against this deck yet.
I had the board cleared, a minimum of 6 power, and my opponent discarding 4 cards in the next plot cycle in 80% of the games (4 of 5).
In the other game the 'opponent' had one character, Epic Stark had 10 power, and then the 'opponent' discarded 4 cards in the plot phase.
It was crazy. I always have been a big believer in just making a better deck, with little meta vs. the strongest decks out there (i.e. I have never meta'd against Lanni kneel) - but this this is really the first time I will have to keep a deck 100% in mind while making mine that I can remember. And it doesn't feel good.
Well if the new Stark agenda is a pain we can always hope for a modified repint of the Heir to the Iron Throne agenda. 
You mean modified to be playable?
I am just glad there was a tourney, and it sound like - from educated, good players who like the books AND game - it is okay.
Stag Lord is always a good voice of Nedness coupled w/ a good player - so if he is okay with it, then I am. I still am worried it rewards weenies too much, but hopefully a healthy fear of Targ will counter that.
I would like to counter the "need of weenies" against fear of winter.
I ran a deck that may have had an average flop of 2-3 cards, most of the characters that were actual characters had costs of 4 and 5. Furthermore the cheap 2 cost characters would not be good to play on setup. However since i ran a lot of redundancy and the best kind of expensive characters (as in they can take care of themselves fairly well) and protection from death (Power of Blood), Fear of Winter was not a major problem for me.
Threat from the North was however.... grr.
I think you just have to have a strategy of what do you do if they try to choke.
Also something I realized after playing against kpmcoy. The Stark agenda is a Response, and thus can be canceled.
bloodycelt said:
Also something I realized after playing against kpmcoy. The Stark agenda is a Response, and thus can be canceled.
It can't be canceled, since the Response is an effect of an Agenda. The FAQ states in Section 4.11:
(4.11) Agenda Cards
Agenda cards are not considered to be in play.
Further, the effects of an Agenda card cannot
be canceled.
However the Agenda's controller must trigger it since it is a Response and not a passive.
I think the posts from the NYC regional put a few fears to rest, but let me add my own thoughts as well. To me, this new Stark threat is very much like all other builds we see come and go. The Lannister Shadows build (still very powerful) needed the City Plot cycle to really shove the kneeling down its opponents throat. I could probably have guessed my opponents first 5 plots with 75% accuracy when that build was so prevalent. The current Stark Build is only a three plot cycle. In addition, I think the Bara Noble Rush is SCARY powerful, evidenced by the undefeated showing Cha0s made with it to win KublaCon outright. I take nothing away from Cha0s for his title...and that's my point. He worked with a simple 3 plot cycle as well...start high gold, followed up by two copies of Power of Blood. Ironclad protection for his most powerful characters. If people need to start running more reset heavy cards to deal with this power grabbing choke strategy, so be it. I can't wait to play this deck with Targ and end a round in which my opponent has a bunch of Epic Events, then hit him with a Westeros Bleeds for a little surprise reset, and Valar in the back pocket to deal with a later threat. Historically, I think players have always had to deal with deadly plot cycles. Doesn't anybody remember Others plots? We have City Plots, and we now have some creative and powerful plot cycles that combo well with other cards. We'll find solutions, it just takes some careful planning and even more careful playing. Now that everyone is aware of this powerful decktype, solutions are right around the corner.
There is, however, one card that I feel should not be in the game. In fact, the whole cycle just feels wrong to me. And that is Distraction. To me, if you work hard to win a challenge, you should win the challenge. Same goes for the rest like it. I see them as events that reverse the basic rules of the game, and that just doesn't fly with me.
Syd said:
He worked with a simple 3 plot cycle as well...start high gold, followed up by two copies of Power of Blood. Ironclad protection for his most powerful characters. If people need to start running more reset heavy cards to deal with this power grabbing choke strategy, so be it.
Syd said:
There is, however, one card that I feel should not be in the game. In fact, the whole cycle just feels wrong to me. And that is Distraction. To me, if you work hard to win a challenge, you should win the challenge. Same goes for the rest like it. I see them as events that reverse the basic rules of the game, and that just doesn't fly with me.
I think you have the wrong card name here. The cycle I think you mean I'm mostly okay with, except for assigning different values to different challenges....
Lars said:
Syd said:
He worked with a simple 3 plot cycle as well...start high gold, followed up by two copies of Power of Blood. Ironclad protection for his most powerful characters. If people need to start running more reset heavy cards to deal with this power grabbing choke strategy, so be it.
no reset needed a first turn blockade works wonders.
Fear of Winter would rock this much more than Blockade IMHO. Bara can reduce to play a lord or lady, and then spew out dupes and Royal Entourages. This was part of the problem I ran into playing cha0s at Kubla.
DJ has the rigth of it. First Turn Fear destroys the high gold Plot openeing. Blockade doesn't bother me as a Bara player. Seat of Power is an even better accelerator than the **** ALLY Entourage.
Not that it matters - Bara can still play out from under The Fear - you just need to weeiene swarm, maybe grab Marge if you have to and plan on the Rush closing things out on Turn four as opposed to turn three.
bloodycelt said:
I would like to counter the "need of weenies" against fear of winter.
I ran a deck that may have had an average flop of 2-3 cards, most of the characters that were actual characters had costs of 4 and 5. Furthermore the cheap 2 cost characters would not be good to play on setup. However since i ran a lot of redundancy and the best kind of expensive characters (as in they can take care of themselves fairly well) and protection from death (Power of Blood), Fear of Winter was not a major problem for me.
Threat from the North was however.... grr.
I think you just have to have a strategy of what do you do if they try to choke.
Also something I realized after playing against kpmcoy. The Stark agenda is a Response, and thus can be canceled.
As Bloodycelt points out, the 1-2 power characters can be great against Fear, but they really fall apart against Targ burn. The trick then, I think, is to build a Targ burn deck that runs Fear of Winter, so that you crush people who can't deal with Fear AND those who can.
By the way, I thought agendas were considered out of play so that you could not cancel/target them....
bloodycelt said:
I would like to counter the "need of weenies" against fear of winter.
I ran a deck that may have had an average flop of 2-3 cards, most of the characters that were actual characters had costs of 4 and 5. Furthermore the cheap 2 cost characters would not be good to play on setup. However since i ran a lot of redundancy and the best kind of expensive characters (as in they can take care of themselves fairly well) and protection from death (Power of Blood), Fear of Winter was not a major problem for me.
I am a little confused here. Having 2-3 characters (3-4 after the marshalling phase) is death against Fear of Winter. Unless you are playing Power of Blood of course (I should have been more specific and said weenies or Power of Blood w/ a ton of noble crests in the deck).
2-4 two claim challenges equals board reset if you are only flopping those few characters, especially since dups and Bodyguards are not setup (something else I would love to see changed...attachments wouldn't be broken on the flops, that is for sure).
We are probably on the same page - you are right that Bara and maybe Stark built in a certain way doesn't need weenies as much.
Twn2dn said:
By the way, I thought agendas were considered out of play so that you could not cancel/target them....
They are considered "out of play" and are thus not actionable unless a card specifically says they can be (like the new Mance that can blank a The North Agenda). The reason they cannot be canceled, though, is because of a specific FAQ entry saying they cannot be. Plots aren't really "in play" either, and they can be canceled, right?