The basic rule for Battle with more than one Enemy is to add the relevant attribute (Strength or Craft) and fight them as one Enemy. What happens when one or more Enemy has a special rule attached to it?

In a recent game, my Druid encountered the Goblin Trapsmith and The Trapper (both Enemies from The Reaper expansion) in the Hidden Valley. Each has special rules that modify how it is encountered. We couldn't figure out a logical way to handle it so I fought two Battles, one against each Enemy, applying the appropriate rule to each Battle.

What are the special abilities of those cards?

I would assume that you resolve both of their special abilities and then fight them both as one encounter. Of course this may be a problem if the two abilities contradict each other

Goblin Trapper - You must roll 1 extra die for your attack roll and use the lowest result.

Trapper - Roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or less than your Craft, you may evade the Trapper. If it is higher, you must fight him, but you may not roll a die for your attack roll.

As you can see, the rules for each are a bit contradictory if taken together.

Gentlegamer said:

Here's my, purely gut feeling take on it:

1) roll for Trapper, if you get to Evade (and choose to do so), then only fight Gobbo Trapper

2) fail the Trapper roll, fight them together, roll 1 die maybe (not sure about this one). I'd take the may not as "you roll 0 dice", but Gobbo Trapper adds 1 extra.

Then again, maybe they're meant to be played separately, though I doubt that. On a side note, drawing Gobbo Trapper in a multiple draw Space along with a 5+ Str enemy sounds like fun. Also, Warrior becomes a true dice-slinger.

Goblin Trapper - You must roll 1 extra die for your attack roll and use the lowest result.

Trapper - Roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or less than your Craft, you may evade the Trapper. If it is higher, you must fight him, but you may not roll a die for your attack roll.

Solution: Roll for Trapper. If successful, you evade the Trapper and must fight the Goblin Trapper. If unsuccessful, they fight as one creature adding their Strength scores together and you roll no die at all, as this is the worse effect.

talismanamsilat said:

Gentlegamer said:

Troll is going to LOVE Trapper (esp. when teamed up with another 3+ Str enemy). 2 dice to roll 1 or less ?

Dam said:

Quick additional questions:

1. Do these two cards have the same Order number in the lower corner?

2. Is either's order number different than most Enemies?

talismanamsilat said:

And one more question: If successful, can I fight with Trapper on my request and roll a die for my attack roll (including 1 extra roll for Goblin Trapper)?

JCHendee said:

8janek8 said:

OK. But: "Trapper - Roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or less than your Craft, you may evade the Trapper."

Does it equal to "have to"? Sorry for scrupulousness, but for me (foreign language) is not quite clear.

Yes, you do have to roll for the Trapper. However, it then goes on to say that if you are successful, you MAY evade the Trapper. So you can choose to fight him if you want to.

Sorry guys, but I answered one of the questions incorrectly as I read the question too quickly.

In summary, if you draw the Goblin Trapper and the Trapper together, you must follow this exact order:

1) Roll 2 dice for the Trapper.

2) If successful, you MAY choose to evade the Trapper if you so wish.

3) If you choose to evade the Trapper, you must fight the Goblin Trapper on his own.

4) If you choose not to evade the Trapper, they add their Strength scores together and fight as one creature, and you cannot roll a die to add to your attack score.

5) If unsuccessful, the Goblin Trapper and Trapper fight as one creature as above!

talismanamsilat said:

I agree with most interpretations here, that you do not roll dice if you fight both. The trapper's mechanic of not allowing you to roll is in the spirit of what a trapper is supposed to do in your adventure, that is, trap/hinder/incapacitate you. He has the better trap than the gobber, as it can only incapacitate you somewhat (being a gobbo it's shoddy traps hehe). So taking that as flavor/spirit of the card, I would play it that way.

Gentlegamer said:

Not sure if it applies to this situation or not but I copied this from page 15 of the rules:

In any instance where a card’s effect indicates that a character
cannot perform an action or use an ability (such as casting a
Spell or using an Object), the character cannot do so. In other
words, the forbidding effects of cards override other abilities
and effects.

Yikes... the combo might be a rare occurrence, but thank you all for trying to help clear this up. And again... another situation in 4th where too much time gets spent running to the rule book to figure things out... and still having a touch of uncertainty. Would've been better to change these cards' order numbers to come before other Enemy cards as well, so it would be clear that attempts to trap came before attacks... or is that the case and I'm overlooking something?

A new question about the Trapper.

- Can the Assassin use the Assassinate Special Ability against the Trapper?

I know the answer is YES, according to card wording and rules, but it generates a bug. The Trapper gives a big penalty in battle, because you have to fight him without rolling the die. It's difficult for everyone, Troll and Warrior included, except for the Assassin.

In Talisman you don't have to think rules in terms of realism and thematics, but I'm sure that cards are written to create a sensation. You fall into a trap, therefore you fight the Trapper with a big disadvantage. The Assassin can assassinate with no problem and automatically win, but the trap would have prevented him from doing so. If rules clash together and cancel the sensation, the card has a (minor) bug, in my opinion. I would say that the Assassin can't assassinate the Trapper if he must/chooses to fight him.

Most likely the Assassin is too agile to be caught in any trap...

talismanisland said:

So is the Thief, but he can do nothing against the Trapper.

My question is pointless, I know. The real question is a deeper one. Many people say that sometimes in Talisman you have to drop realism and thematical sense, or you'll be stuck with hopeless contradictions. But cards are always created in respect to realism and thematical sense. In this case an Adventure Card combined with a Character Special Ability generates a strange situation. It's easily solved, but it's lackluster and disappointing. If you can't fight a Trapper normally because he puts traps around, you won't be able to assassinate him as well.

However, everybody knows that the only solution is a house rule.

The_Warlock said:

Yeah, haven't had this combo come up for me yet (IIRC), but then, I don't allow the über-Assassin to kill cards he just drew anyway. If he were to land on the Trapper, I'd have him make the regular check (2 dice vs Craft), if successful, stabbity-stab-stab, if not, Trapper's ability would kick in, no Assassination.

Dam said:

Neither do I. In the above situation the Assassin landed on the face-up Trapper.

Dam said:

This is a good compromise and a better House Rule than denying the Assassination at all. He chooses not to Evade the Trapper, being able to do so, and to assassinate him. If he can't Evade because he doesn't pass the check, he can't stab the Trapper in the back.

If i draw the Trapper with my Assassin, then i do it the normal way. If the Trapper is already on the board, then i would first roll a dice(what the Trapper says) and then i assassinate him. He is so weak.