yes yes yes, I know he is the object of hate by all... I had a bit of a bad experience since I started X-wing right in the middle of the ensnare-hatred (I also, as a new player, was being told how the ships that I couldn't fly because they were priced out were "broken" consistently by a guy who ran Boba/Fenn Rau. I was a tad irked by this... ) and some of the first ships I bought were a pair of Nantexes that seemed cool that I have never gotten to fly because... what are you supposed to do with a pair? Except fly Ensnare Sun-Fac, but he was wayyyy too expensive for me to risk ~80 points as a new player on a 4-hull ship. And let's be real, with the 90 degree stress-rotate option now available, this certainly takes a bit of the edge of Ensnare.

[Nantex apologetics over]

When Jango came out I immediately tried a Sun Fac/Jango combo, but got absolutely wrecked (I was confused about the Ensnare rules slightly that contributed to this). All this to say, I've mainly wanted to try flying aces ever since I started playing since the idea of arc-dodging, playing patient, and taking opportune shots seemed the most fun to me (Instead, I've resorted to flying CIS-swarm, which I find a bit boring).

Is there anywhere where I can watch how to fly Sun Fac effectively? Ideally the Sun Fac/Jango combo? (I've also considered a Sun Fac + Grievous + Chertek/Berwer Kret combo. Try to use Ensnare to jettison Greivous into outmaneuver position maybe?)

Another question I have, is what do you do with Sun Fac when the opponent is running Medium/Large base ships?

Fac is a bit difficult with the changes. If it were a Spamtex meta, you could just skip Ensnare and use the ability against other Nanteces a la Niklas God. IMO, his Predator Crack Fac is still the best build and just 50 pt. Use the I6 and tractor ability to roll up to the biggest threat and delete it. When he dies, it's not a big deal, as most Duchess builds are more expensive than he for the same role.

But since you prefer to Ensnare, step 1 is make an offering to the matchup gods that you don't face medium or big bases. After that, bring rocks, even if clouds are better to run through. With tractor changes, slamming opponents into rocks is the only way you are guaranteed to not get shot when using Ensnare. Thus, take big rocks and clump them together. If the opponent goes into the asteroid field, make them pay. If not, they are better herded by Jango whilst Fac gets a safe engagement route.

When possible, turn hard and tractor to keep time on target. Tighter tends to be better.

If Lone Wolf isn't in your list, Doocrew on Jango can help Fac weather an incoming attack. If you can't tractor the opponent, you can still reposition with the ship ability and then Ensnare Jango to clear agility all around whilst repositioning (unless your Jango has tractor beam in which case, cool?).

Also, don't engage unless close range is possible. Granted, the tractor and the dial make close range very possible, but you'll vaporize at Ranges 2-3 even with Dooku. Fac is more the control piece and Jango the damage dealer.

29 minutes ago, player655164 said:

I couldn't fly because they were priced out were "broken" consistently by a guy who ran Boba/Fenn Rau.

Probably because Sun Fac is a menace to Boba/Fenn.

31 minutes ago, player655164 said:

Except fly Ensnare Sun-Fac, but he was wayyyy too expensive for me to risk ~80 points as a new player on a 4-hull ship. And let's be real, with the 90 degree stress-rotate option now available, this certainly takes a bit of the edge of Ensnare.

He and ensare are still really good, you just need to only move them with the tractor if you can put them onto a rock to deny shots. If you don't move them, the don't get to rotate. The 69 points for Ensnare Fac is comparable to the 71 point Fearless Fenn, but yes, it can be unforgiving.

Sun Fac + 6 Vultures with toys is strong, and it won the St. Louis Grand champs. For a two ship list, I would move to Zam at i5. Zam gets free mods. Give Zam Dooku crew and a bomb, and you have 40ish points to play with, or the stonkingly largest bid out there.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Probably because Sun Fac is a menace to Boba/Fenn.

He and ensare are still really good, you just need to only move them with the tractor if you can put them onto a rock to deny shots. If you don't move them, the don't get to rotate. The 69 points for Ensnare Fac is comparable to the 71 point Fearless Fenn, but yes, it can be unforgiving.

Sun Fac + 6 Vultures with toys is strong, and it won the St. Louis Grand champs. For a two ship list, I would move to Zam at i5. Zam gets free mods. Give Zam Dooku crew and a bomb, and you have 40ish points to play with, or the stonkingly largest bid out there.

Dooku is a great piece for Zam and to your point about tractoring opponents you can use Dooku to get them to roll that damage. It's probably better to hold onto it for Zam's double taps but in the right situation those hits could be super impactful.

I’m NOT an expert on Fac or Zam; haven’t yet had a chance to field Zam, and only recently felt like I finally wrapped my head around Fac. But rather than just Fac and Zam, my head immediately goes someplace like:

Sun Fac, DBS-404, Zam

(45) Sun Fac [Nantex-class Starfighter]
(24) Ensnare
Points: 69

(76) Zam Wesell [Firespray-class Patrol Craft]
(10) Count Dooku
Points: 86

(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(1) Landing Struts
(5) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 36

Total points: 191

There’s points to spare, so a Predator on Fac, or more bombs and toys for Zam are completely doable. Or you can just run a 9-point bid, if that does anything for you in your local scene. But DBS-404 with Advanced Proton Torps can rock in for the maximum 6 reds at range 1, with a lock, and maybe a calc, and maybe even a Fac-enabled tractor token on the target, if you’re lucky. And his 4 initiative doesn’t suck, so he can plausibly bullseye a very wide variety of enemy ships. If he sticks around long enough, he can even pull a red Reload, but I’d say you’re doing well even if he just manages a 2-dice approach shot and a single salvo at range 1. Anyway, he’s a really good deal for 36 points, and makes a great filler piece for a list like Zam/Sun Fac. Otherwise you can end up overloading Zam with junk that maybe isn’t as effective as having a third fighter. Of course, your points are less secure, but I think a puncher like 404 should usually get his points back.

On 12/17/2020 at 8:47 AM, player655164 said:

When Jango came out I immediately tried a Sun Fac/Jango combo, but got absolutely wrecked (I was confused about the Ensnare rules slightly that contributed to this). All this to say, I've mainly wanted to try flying aces ever since I started playing since the idea of arc-dodging, playing patient, and taking opportune shots seemed the most fun to me (Instead, I've resorted to flying CIS-swarm, which I find a bit boring).

Is there anywhere where I can watch how to fly Sun Fac effectively? Ideally the Sun Fac/Jango combo? (I've also considered a Sun Fac + Grievous + Chertek/Berwer Kret combo. Try to use Ensnare to jettison Greivous into outmaneuver position maybe?)

Another question I have, is what do you do with Sun Fac when the opponent is running Medium/Large base ships?

There probably isnt a lot of footage (good footage) out there of Sun Fac post tractor nerf.

You need to make clear your role of Sun Fac in your squad. Like his sole purpose is to get another ship to endgame, just like Fenn in a Fenn/Guri list is to kill the ship (or as many as possible in swarms case) that threatens Guri before he dies. Even if you trade down initially, like Trading 71pt Fenn for a 56pt Soontir, or trading Fenn for two 31pt Ion Cannon Scyks, leaving jsut 3-4 ships left for Guri to cleanup. As long as that threat from Guri is gone and she is now highest init on the field with plenty of time remaining. This is probably the role Sun Fac fills now. Hunt aces. Which means, you probably need something to deal with Generic beef and swarms like a Boba. Zam isnt a bad choice cause she gets a double tap, and/or can spend her lock, and get it right back after defending as well.

I like the thoughts of punishing people for turning toward Sun Fac (Outmaneuver Grevious). If Sun is your ace hunter, you need to make ships like Vader, Whisper, etc. pay for turning toward Sun and getting a shot, and best way is outmaneuver and autoblaster cannons. Let them choose if they want a shot at Sun, or turn their back to autoblasters or outmaneuver.

Sun Fac (45)
Ensnare (24)

Zam Wesell (76)
Autoblasters (3)
Slave I (3)

Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
Outmaneuver (6)
Total: 198

It's a 6/5/5/ init list. The Phlaacs are really good pocket aces, and can hit hard if ignored. Anytime someone turns their back to Zam, she gets a crit for her autoblaster thanks to Slave I. If they dont turn from Zam, her conditions trigger and she can double tap/get a lock on the attacker. Win win.You could lose Outmaneuver on Phlaac, and take Jango with Zam crew as well.

If you want more Ace+Swarm. Maybe:

Sun Fac (45)
Ensnare (24)
Predator (2)

Haor Chall Prototype (21)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Haor Chall Prototype (21)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Concussion Missiles (6)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Concussion Missiles (6)

DFS-311 (23)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Total: 198

DFS-311 can pass Sun Fac a calc, enabling Sun to calc + evade, or focus plus calc, so he can be offense/defense modded when he needs to. The calc passing doesnt happen til start of engagement so you get to see the entire board state.

18 minutes ago, wurms said:

Sun Fac (45)
Ensnare (24)

Zam Wesell (76)
Autoblasters (3)
Slave I (3)

Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
Outmaneuver (6)
Total: 198

This looks awesome! May have to add it to my Sep lists to try out.

On 12/18/2020 at 5:14 PM, j_man_04 said:

This looks awesome! May have to add it to my Sep lists to try out.

Having just played it this evening, can confirm that it's awesome! 🙂 I didn't get much use out of either the Autoblaster/Slave I combo on Zam, or Outmaneuver on the Prototype, but that's because my opponent was worrying enough about them both to focus on those ships first, letting Sun Fac run amuck. Zam's pilot ability it really solid for the mind games aspect, and messing with target priority.