Yesterday I was playing against a guy with a confusing lineup of 5 similar--yet all differently upgraded--ships, and I was copying it down in YASB before we started just so I had it straight in my head and could wrap my head around which ships were worth how many points.

That was my main reason. I then mentioend that it would be easier than constantly asking which ship was which and how many points each ship was worth. The opponent then accused me of cheating since you weren't allowed to just have the other person's list in front of you.

Is this true? Obviously if so I want to know. Could someone clarify to me what information you are allowed to have during gameplay?

You are 100% allowed to have your opponent's list in front of you. Most events require a player submit their list to TT.to where all players can see it at their convenience. I also always bring multiple copies of my list (usually 1 per planned round and 2-3 extras) so that my opponent not only can have a copy for the match, but can keep it to reference later.

The ships, upgrades and points of a list are all open information. How can a player play the game to his/her full ability level if he/she doesn't have access to such knowledge?

1 hour ago, player655164 said:

Yesterday I was playing against a guy with a confusing lineup of 5 similar--yet all differently upgraded--ships, and I was copying it down in YASB before we started just so I had it straight in my head and could wrap my head around which ships were worth how many points.

That was my main reason. I then mentioend that it would be easier than constantly asking which ship was which and how many points each ship was worth. The opponent then accused me of cheating since you weren't allowed to just have the other person's list in front of you.

Is this true? Obviously if so I want to know. Could someone clarify to me what information you are allowed to have during gameplay?

You definitely are allowed to have you opponent's list in front of you, and it is typically a requirement for organized play. This includes the point value and half point value of ships.

Note taking was disallowed in organized play for the potential of slowing the game down. Keeping track of points is not note taking, but rather part of the game.

6 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

You definitely are allowed to have you opponent's list in front of you, and it is typically a requirement for organized play.

Required to submit to the TO, but i cant find anything that says its required to give to your opponent.

That said, what is defined as 'note taking' is more or less up to the TO, and im pretty sure the general consensus is that having your opponents list in front of you is perfectly legal. So long as you are not doing much more than that (like making notes between turns or whatever). Its generally accepted by the playerbase to have your opponents list in front of you and they shouldn't be making a big deal about it unless they suspect you of cheating in someway.

6 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Note taking was disallowed in organized play for the potential of slowing the game down. Keeping track of points is not note taking, but rather part of the game.

Has there been something updated in the rules in the last year that I'm unaware of regarding keeping track of points in games? I only ask because at worlds last year we were all told that using scorekeeping apps on our phones or writing down score changes/updates was not allowed. unless there has been something officially release by FFG I'm going to take the judges from Worlds word at this stage.

I don't understand why this is the only game in the world where you aren't allowed to write down the score as the game goes along, its immensely frustrating, I ended up loosing my win and in game at an SOS last year because I miscalculated the mental arithmetic.

FFG/AMG really need to specifically allow scorekeeping to be done during games I think.

2 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

I don't understand why this is the only game in the world where you aren't allowed to write down the score as the game goes along, its immensely frustrating, I ended up loosing my win and in game at an SOS last year because I miscalculated the mental arithmetic.

because players might be trying to calculate how much more damage they need to do and to what ships, and just doing that calculation eats up playtime during the turns that your opponent likely wont appreciate rather than just playing.

Having a list of their squad with point totals is one thing. Constantly jotting down the 'current score' is a bit of another. At least, this is why i imagine they do that. Trying to not get it as bad a chess where they had to time each players turn so they didn't take so dam long analyzing each possible move before they actually did something.

This game is suppose to be fairly fluid, going from player to player, turn to turn. Not stopping at each moment to calculate the possible end score of each move. (this is of course an extreme example, but a line has to be drawn somewhere).

I personally don't give a frogs fat butt about keeping minute scores. As long as my opponents ships points match up with their pilots and upgrades as they are suppose to, i just play until one of us is beaten, or until time, and see where i end up at the end of it. It stops being fun otherwise and turns into a Job. Just play the game. Leave the min/maxing and spreadsheet analysts at home.

1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

because players might be trying to calculate how much more damage they need to do and to what ships, and just doing that calculation eats up playtime during the turns that your opponent likely wont appreciate rather than just playing.

Having a list of their squad with point totals is one thing. Constantly jotting down the 'current score' is a bit of another. At least, this is why i imagine they do that. Trying to not get it as bad a chess where they had to time each players turn so they didn't take so dam long analyzing each possible move before they actually did something.

This game is suppose to be fairly fluid, going from player to player, turn to turn. Not stopping at each moment to calculate the possible end score of each move. (this is of course an extreme example, but a line has to be drawn somewhere).

I personally don't give a frogs fat butt about keeping minute scores. As long as my opponents ships points match up with their pilots and upgrades as they are suppose to, i just play until one of us is beaten, or until time, and see where i end up at the end of it. It stops being fun otherwise and turns into a Job. Just play the game. Leave the min/maxing and spreadsheet analysts at home.

Hey if you want to play at home in untimed games till you or your opponent are wiped that’s all good, but the simple reality is that in tournaments more and more games are going to time. Whether players like it or not that is just the way the game has evolved typically. I ran an event a year ago with about 40 players and over 62% of the matches went to time, that’s just the way competitive X-wing is going.

Not being allowed to track scores on a notepad (seriously it takes less than a few seconds to write down the points destroyed each time a ship goes to half or is destroyed) makes it hard to know if you are winning and should use your actions and tokens defensively or if you are losing and you need to be spending tokens more aggressively to try and get ahead.

I've played competitive card games for well over 20 years and in pretty much every one it was required you keep score on a notepad to other device you can't disrupt by knocking it over.

I have literally seen streaming matches from large events where players made decisions based on the assumption they were winning but in fact they were losing and no one could figure out why they played defensively on the final turn when they needed to score more points to win, then they ended up finding out that they lost and they were absolutely gutted.

This is not about Min/maxing or WAAC, it is quite literally just asking to keep track of the score in a game where the score determines who wins.

Also, having a note of the current score allows for faster play than having to do a mental count each time you need to take a decision.

If the argument is really to get a faster game, this makes no sense.

@Mace Windu While it may seem like it, im not saying i agree or disagree with the rule against taking notes during a match or with FFG's logic here. I was merely suggesting a possible reason why the rule exists. I'm aware how competitive the game is, thanks.

As i said, the interpretation of the rule of taking notes is largely up to the TO as FFG (i dont believe) made it exactly clear what that entails, and how could they, as its so vague of a thing. I'm having trouble thinking of what possible notes players could be making during a game outside of the score. Maybe writing down damage cards they've seen being applied to ships? I don't know.

34 minutes ago, NerroSama said:

Also, having a note of the current score allows for faster play than having to do a mental count each time you need to take a decision.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. It really depends on each person.

12 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

I have literally seen streaming matches from large events

From X-wing events? That's kinda sad, actually. But if there are large cash pool's involved, i can somewhat understand it. But as i said at that point, its a job not a game.

Who knows, perhaps AMG will come in and make changes in the tournament rules to allow taking notes, or clarify what that entails.

5 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

I'm having trouble thinking of what possible notes players could be making during a game outside of the score. Maybe writing down damage cards they've seen being applied to ships? I don't know.

The examples I have heard of that people are most worried about are things like preferred asteroid placements, opening maneuvers, engagement lanes and such. The rationale is that people might take notes on how an opponent approaches the game, and then pass that information onto another player.
I know that I will verbally discuss how a game went with my friends (he ran with Obi here, when I was expecting a turn in) and such, but the idea is that specific turn-by-turn notes could give someone a leg up in the next match against them.

17 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Having a list of their squad with point totals is one thing. Constantly jotting down the 'current score' is a bit of another.

I believe this was why the ruling for Worlds was made. Points is one things, doing math every turn is another.

Well this, and the fact that most folks keep track of points on their phone, and you could be checking other dice probabilities or messaging about the match on the phone.

2 hours ago, SwampyCr said:

The examples I have heard of that people are most worried about are things like preferred asteroid placements, opening maneuvers, engagement lanes and such. The rationale is that people might take notes on how an opponent approaches the game, and then pass that information onto another player.
I know that I will verbally discuss how a game went with my friends (he ran with Obi here, when I was expecting a turn in) and such, but the idea is that specific turn-by-turn notes could give someone a leg up in the next match against them.

Ah. I see. Yeah, i guess i can see that. That's pretty extreme measures to go though to win some acrylic and a glass for a table top game lol. I do hope we avoid getting to the level of MTG players though.

21 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Well this, and the fact that most folks keep track of points on their phone, and you could be checking other dice probabilities or messaging about the match on the phone.

Yeeah, looking at ones phone that deeply, or that often does seem a bit sus. I only play at store level events (lately ive been running them) so i dont see this level of behavior from our group. Tho i do occasionally get some.. 'less friendly' level acts from those who come from other areas.