I’m newish to the game and have mostly been focusing on skirmish, having only played a couple of standard games. I’ve done well but today my buddy played this:

Vader-Saber Throw+Force Reflexes

Snows-Flametrooper+extra trooper

Snows-Flametrooper

2x Deathtroopers-Config+Overwatch

and I played this:

Krennic-Strict Orders

Storms-Trooper+Gideon

2x Storms-DLT-19+Trooper

Storms

Death Troopers-DLT-19D Trooper, E-11D, Overwatch

The game mode was Breach and it started off fine until Vader rolled into my gun line deflecting and saber throwing while taking almost no damage. I was able to burn him down the next round but at a huge cost to my units, as snows and IDTs burnt me up with blast as well. I probably could have range controlled better but on such a small map it’s not hard for Vader to move twice and have something in range 2, especially with 5 Vader command cards. It felt really bad to pop standby on Vader to put no damage through and lose a trooper or two to deflect with each attack, leaving me vulnerable to trooper unit follow ups and Saber throw. This was probably my worst game of legion yet and it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, I’ve really enjoyed all the other games I played and felt like a lot of thought and strategy went in to them. Rushing Vader into my gun line with deflect and pierce 3 Saber Throw felt like it removed a lot of my agency and didn’t really require much thought. So what’s your advice? Is Vader just that good and I have to just be willing to throw units in the grinder to get him down or am I just bad? Thanks!

Its tough to counter Vader in skirmish without a high threat model of your own. And Krennic isnt exactly the best commander for dealing with Vader.

You could try bringing an AT-ST with Veers. An AT-ST with aim tokens can shoot Vader off the board. And Veers' maximum firepower can sometimes get lucky and hurt Vader.

Boba Fett is another possibility. He wont counter Vader by himself but he can contain Vader for at least a turn or two. And Boba Fett has impervious which helps against Vaders pierce.

You could always just bring Vader yourself too but thats not as creative of a solution.

8 hours ago, Khobai said:

You could try bringing an AT-ST with Veers. An AT-ST with aim tokens can shoot Vader off the board. And Veers' maximum firepower can sometimes get lucky and hurt Vader.

Right. I have played an AT list with Veers a couple of times before and that was my first thought about what to bring next time. It’s funny because I thought that an AT-ST seemed overpowered in Skirmish, but now I understand that any 200 point mode is just going to seem that way on a 3x3 map. I’ve never had an issue playing against Vader in Standard.

Well, there is also the option of tarpitting him - throw a squad (preferably a damaged one) into melee with him so he has to waste actions dealing with them. Or bring Royal Guards.

Also, cover. Saber Throw doesn't ignore cover, so against heavy cover he can kill 1 guy, tops.

5 hours ago, costi said:

Well, there is also the option of tarpitting him - throw a squad (preferably a damaged one) into melee with him so he has to waste actions dealing with them. Or bring Royal Guards.

Also, cover. Saber Throw doesn't ignore cover, so against heavy cover he can kill 1 guy, tops.

Tarpitting is a decent strategy, and not impossible with a slow moving unit like Vader.

Vader can still roll 3 crits and kill 3. Not likely, but possible.

Just do your best to ensure the only options he has for Saber Throw targets are in heavy cover. He will deal 0-1 damage. Big whoop.

3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Just do your best to ensure the only options he has for Saber Throw targets are in heavy cover. He will deal 0-1 damage. Big whoop.

Right. It’s not so much just Saber Throw but also deflect on top of it. I like the idea of tarpitting him so I don’t have to worry about deflect.

44 minutes ago, Erichxzann said:

Right. It’s not so much just Saber Throw but also deflect on top of it. I like the idea of tarpitting him so I don’t have to worry about deflect.

Deflect only triggers on 1 out of every 8 wounds he's saving on. It's not really something the controlling player can count on or that you should worry about. It's going to happen every now and then, but it's not really a big deal.

9 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Deflect only triggers on 1 out of every 8 wounds he's saving on. It's not really something the controlling player can count on or that you should worry about. It's going to happen every now and then, but it's not really a big deal.

So a few times I rolled 6 hits and he dodged 1 to deflect and rolled 3 blocks and 2 surges. It felt bad, maybe his dice were just fire. Also having two dodge tokens allowed him to do it against two units then follow up with a Saber Throw. Do you think I just need to burn through it like I did? I mean I did kill him but it took longer than I had wanted and it gave his flame troopers time to get into range.

2 minutes ago, Erichxzann said:

So a few times I rolled 6 hits and he dodged 1 to deflect and rolled 3 blocks and 2 surges. It felt bad, maybe his dice were just fire. Also having two dodge tokens allowed him to do it against two units then follow up with a Saber Throw. Do you think I just need to burn through it like I did? I mean I did kill him but it took longer than I had wanted and it gave his flame troopers time to get into range.

Don't look at individual instances, look at the statistical probabilities.
Also, what were the circumstances for him "having two dodge tokens allowed him to do it against two units then follow up with a Saber Throw"? Are you saying he had 2 dodge tokens before activating?

2 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:what were the circumstances for him "having two dodge tokens allowed him to do it against two units then follow up with a Saber Throw"? Are you saying he had 2 dodge tokens before activating?

It was either Master of Evil or Fear and Dead Men. I think Master of Evil. Then force Reflexes on his act.

both master of evil and dead men give him dodge tokens. dead men buffs his deflect too.

the problem is its hard to both stay in heavy cover and avoid vader in melee at the same time. eventually something has to give.

thats why you either need a way to tarpit him or a high threat model of your own that can kill him like an at-st.

Royal guards can lock Vader down for several rounds, plenty of time for the rest of your units to secure objectives. They have the same health as Vader and the immune pierce keeps them alive incredibly long. I've even played a few games where royal guards took down Vader. They are, at least for me, the absolute best unit for dealing with lightsaber dudes

On 12/13/2020 at 5:07 PM, costi said:

Well, there is also the option of tarpitting him - throw a squad (preferably a damaged one) into melee with him so he has to waste actions dealing with them.

Yep this worked. Took him down in one round locking him up. My opponent was not expecting me to do that.

On 12/14/2020 at 12:14 PM, arnoldrew said:

Deflect only triggers on 1 out of every 8 wounds he's saving on. It's not really something the controlling player can count on or that you should worry about. It's going to happen every now and then, but it's not really a big deal.

How do you get 1/8? Assuming he has a dodge to use and six dice are rolled, there would be one surge on average. That’s 1/6.

25 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

How do you get 1/8? Assuming he has a dodge to use and six dice are rolled, there would be one surge on average. That’s 1/6.

Dang it, I'm more used to calculating attack values. You're right, it's 1/6.

10 hours ago, Erichxzann said:

Yep this worked. Took him down in one round locking him up. My opponent was not expecting me to do that.

Does this technique work if Vader has Force Push equipped?

Probably not because he can just push you off and Saber Throw you. In that case you probably just do what others said and burn him down with ranged attacks.

ranged attacks are the biggest problem for Vader

all vader can do is try to get engaged with multiple units to force you to waste multiple activations withdrawing in order to shoot him. the more you make vader rely on push to stay engaged the less he can use reflexes and the faster he will die.

sometimes withdrawing away from vader can be a mistake though because Ive seen Vader get murdered by regular troopers rolling black dice in melee lol. A lot depends on the situation and how badly damaged vader is. sometimes tarpitting him with crappy units in melee is the best course of action.